Exp Question

[NeedHelp]

First off all I wanted to say how great verion 4.0 is - Hats off guys great job.

Now onto my experence question? First of all is it broken? Everything seems to work great but the experence information windows does not seem to work for me. Other then the maps this has to be my favor use of ShowEQ.

Any information about this would be great.

NH

[casey]

when you kill something, all that is sent now is a very small packet containing

1) opcode
2) version
3) exp value

where exp value is a number between 0 and 330, whch correspond to the following values

0 - no exp
66 - 1 full yellow
132 - 2 yellow
198 - 3 yellow
264 - 4 yellow
330 - ding

further broken down, being 66 values per yellow bubble, that equates to about 13.2 values per blue bub, or more likely 13 values per bubble with an extra number corresponding to fully no blue showing, or maybe one bubble is just a little bigger.

most likely this numbering was chosen because there drawing routines for the experience bar have the same resolution for drawing (ie, each bubble only has 13 possible positions for the bar to occupy), and this number equates exactly to the drawing of the bar, and serves no other purpose.

It also appears, although i havent had time to look much into it yet, that we no longer know which mob you were responsible for killing. If we knew the level of the mob you just killed, we could extrapolate the proper experience values, but we would need to know what you just killed. There may be ways of guessing that, but i havent looked at it myself.

The only hints we get is when you zone, your raw exp value is sent, and knowing your level, we can get a range of possible exp values that you just got on a kill. ie, if it says 3, we know the exp reward is bounded between 2/300ths and 4/330ths of your current level, and we know the exp you need for each level.

Of course, all this assumes that nothing exp related was changed except what is reported to the client.

Expect some changes to the current stuff, just dont expect it to be what it once was (just as HP and faction values were changed to hinder showeqs reporting)

actually, i'm looking at everquest.h as i write this :) and i see the spawnkill struct has a killer id, depending on how those are processesed (how much of a cpu hit it will be :) we can match that that against your player ID (and optionally against your pet's ID, your group members ID's, thier pet's ID, it gets messy) and then reference the spawn's level with the provided spawnID before we remove it from the spawnlist (this would happen every time something dies). From that, once we aquire level of the dead spawn, we can calculate how much exp you should get and quantify it with the range of possible values we extrapolate from the exp reward.

I just need to go through the code and take a look at the routines that handle this packet and then do some coding and testing (after new years probably). (and i still need to update the group exp calculation to be correct).

ok, that was long, hope it was to your satisfaction :)

[NeedHelp]

wow

You really know your stuff and showeq. Thanks for the reply.

I hope you can get it working. One of the best things I loved about showeq was know how many mobs it was going to take to level and how my average exp was going.

NH

[smanux]

Regarding experience, anyone figured exp modifiers for Vah Shir and Beastlords yet ?

[three-p-o]

I'm not sure how long ago this happened but exp modifires were removed from the game within the past year. all classes get the same exp for what they kill.

[casey]

no, modifiers were not removed, they were just compensated for.

the modifiers are

rog,war - .9
wis casters - 1.0
int casters - 1.1
monks - 1.2
hybrid - 1.4 (sk/pal/rng/brd)

they still exist.

What happened is they started multilpying your experience awards by your multiplier if it was more than 1.

The disparity in exp requirements are there, they jsut dont mean anything, since that SK gets more xp for killing the exact same mob the druid killed.

I havent looked at my BST's exp yet, but my bet is they either put it on the hybrid table (1.4) or just stuck it in the wis caster table (1.0) since it doesnt really make a difference.

Race modifier, is most likely either in line with humans or higher like barbs/ogres since cats get some racial benefits.

[Zeppo]

Has the experience window been fixed yet?
Someone told me it was working in the latest version, but after doing an upgrade with the latest cvs, it still says I get 0 under the Experience Gained column.
Looks like maybe the Group Total column might be working, though.
Dunno.

[Circles]

0 is a proper exp gain result... it means you did not show movement in your exp bar with the latest kill. (you only get reports now when you gain 1/330 of the bar or more)

[Ataal]

I actually was wondering if anyone else has been getting this.....

I've been getting negative exp randomly, I'll kill 8 things for 40,000'ish exp, and every so often I'll get an unkown(mob name) with negative 16,000'ish exp. Is this normal?

[serberus]

One thing I noticed a while ago, if your grouped, but your team member is out of range to get experience from the kill you just made - then you get full experience PLUS the group bonus.

This is very nice if you can get a full group and then move them all out of range as you'd get a 20% bonus.

I'm now wondering, if you group with 5 hybrids as opposed to 5 warriors, do you get a 20% bonus with a 1.4 experience modifier as opposed to a 20% bonus with a 0.9 experience modifier?

My logic behind this is: the hybrid causes EQ to give it more experience, but due to the fact that its out of range, you get that experience instead.

Lets say you kill something for a usual 100k experience. Add the 20% bonus and get 120k experience, times that by the 1.4 modifier and get 168k experience.

If that holds true then anyone who could muster a team of 5 hybrid mules and solo would be in the 'phat exp' market.

This sounds like something interesting to try out.

Thanks

Serberus

[Mr Guy]

Serb, hows this sound to test:

Find a couple friends with multi accounts, you are aiming for seven people here right (Group plus high level pl)? Log in a mule from each account you want to PL, and the one to do the honors. Have all the mules sit in SK at the spires, zone the PL and one mule into Splitpaw. Wail on gnolls. Focus primarly on keeping him just barely alive, not so much on healing. After he gets several kills check the exp meter.

If it turns out you do get uber bonus:
Hybrid+Splitpaw Zem+Full Group take turns zoning in and plowing through gnolls. Get a full spawn up to the doors each and the exp would ROLL in from 15 to 35.

I'm not sure how the Group Modifier reacts to people out of zone. Heck if it does alright if you have a bunch of druid friends that solo all you'd need to do is each group up while you solo in different zones, or different parts of the same zone. Get some necros in on the action too!

[Cryonic]

Out of zone is the same as not in group. Change zones and the bug (if it really exists) goes away.

[serberus]

what Cryonic said =)

they all need to be in the same zone, but out of range.

I'm pretty sure that you get the group experience modifier but I have no idea about the hybrid modifier. It'd be useful to know when the modifier is applied, before or after its decidied to be allocated to one person.

I found out the group thing while I was hunting in iceclad ocean, I think I was watching the experience meter and noticed I got more when I was grouped and out of range, than we I was solo - it was a pathetic increase though, the 2 person 2% one =P

Serberus

<edit> as for testing this theory out, i'm a lonely solo'ing druid and have no friends to test it with =P. Reckon we could muster a group of 6 from the SEQ boards? If we have 6 newbies form a group and test this out somewhere like butcherblock (nice big safe zone with dwarven hybrid paladins) on one of the servers then we could resolve this question. Thanks. </edit>

[casey]

I'm now wondering, if you group with 5 hybrids as opposed to 5 warriors, do you get a 20% bonus with a 1.4 experience modifier as opposed to a 20% bonus with a 0.9 experience modifier?

the classes of those you group with has no bearing on your exp, grouping with 5 SK's is no different than 5 warriors. The only thing that has bearing is level.

Take everyones level in your group, including yourself, add 5 to each level, then add them all up. Now take your level, add 5. Now you have a ratio, of your level + 5 / everyones level + 5 (+5 on each group member).

Now calculate the exp a mob gives you, multiply it by the group bonus, then multiply it by the ratio you calculated above. This number is your share of the exp, now multiply it by your class modifier, this is your experience award.

You'll notice that no matter the classes you group with, your group split is the same value if you kill the same level mob, with the same levels of people. Only your class matters, and it only matters for your exp, it has no effect on your group members.

[Mr Guy]

Ok, but the druid analogy would still work for, say, druids kiting cougars in IC, while the others med at the docks?

[casey]

i havent tested it to see if this is still the case, but if you are far enough from your party members to get "You recieve experience" instead of "You recieve party experience", you get the group bonus applied to your exp, but no split. Your other party members need to be in the same zone.

dont know if that still works though.

[serberus]

so the ultimate power levelling location has to be this method in the hole =)

25% ZEM
20% group exp modifier

thats some nice theory =)

Serberus

[RSB]

One thing to note about PL is going to the zone with the highest ZEM is the key. Normally those zones are harder thus take longer.

I guess if you can have 5 friends log in and sit across the zone while you solo then yea the extra 20% is nice. But I bet if you planned a group more proper you could get faster xp with 2 people.

We know that at higher levels a mob only gives about 6% more xp per level. Problem is that it often takes a lot more time to kill those mobs. Fastest xp after 20 is finding the right mobs that are just blue to you or are just piss weak to begin with.

My key to PL is find mobs that can flow at a steady rate with little down time.

[fryfrog]

city of mist is a super place for this. the mobs aren't exceptionally hard, the ZEM is pretty high, there are TONS of mobs, they don't run AND it is a fairly unpopular zone to exp in.

i can do a level or two an hour in this place pl'ing with a 55ish druid and a 54ish cleric. great place, even around 50th i'd say.

[SlowNLazy]

Just stirring the pot a little.... and possibly stretching this :) BUT I want to make sure I understand this....

Ok .... find a zone, let's say the ubah HOLE....
Now find 3 teams of two people and all join one group.... Say one doing Ent... Maybe one doing CY outside of Castle, and one doing the tunnels past castle(don't ask how we got there.. just pretend).... AND for the sake of argueing.. the distance between camps is great enough to not get XP from each other's "camp"...

Question: Do you get BOTH the group bonus and ZEM in all 3 teams?

Heh 2 3-man squads in ME, Seb, Charsis, UP, etc......

[RSB]

Hmmm interesting
Never thought of that.

when you are off by yourself you don't get party exp but if you where with another you would. Thus it MIGHT give you the bonus for all 6 people.

[Mr Guy]

Without having tested it, based entirely off of what others have said before, I'd have to go with yes.


In fact, before I suggested a possible PL method of getting five friends (accounts) to park a level 1 in your group at the safe spot of any zone. Based on previous testing (NOT done by me) that OUGHT to multiply your exp by 1/6th.

It's a good enough idea I suppose I should eventually test it out myself, since I have access to 5 accounts.


Of course it will be not helpful for those PLing against reds at low levels, as I would think the 1/11th cap would still be in place.

[RSB]

Though that might soud good I've questioned that before

We know the formula for Group xp is
(your lvl + 5) / (Total Group Lvls + (5 * Number in group))
so if your level 55 say it would be
60 / 90 would be your share. 2/3rd....hmmm doesn't look to good

I expect that even though they don't keep their xp that you still only get your 2/3rds of the xp

That makes me think that the xp formula might count your group as the number of people in your group that are close by too.

Hard to say without testing.