Stupid gm bans a guy for suspected SEQ usage.

[Pigeon]

Full story is here. (http://www.townrebels.org/home.php)

Long and the short of it is that a gm was on a power trip, tried to bust a guild for the z-axis warping thing in Vex Thal that LoS got shlocked with a few days ago, but got them for ShowEQ instead.

The gm was in the zone with gm invis on, and the guy in question knew it. The kicker is, he wasn't actually using ShowEQ, but a broken EQ command that basically lets you see if any mob is up as long as you know its name. The gm, of course, is totally unfamiliar with the high-end game, and suspended the guy because he thought he was using SEQ.

The question we have to ask ourselves is this: is it just question of a power-tripping PMS'd and really really stupid gm or is this actually verant's new policy?

And of course- don't mention ShowEQ to anyone in game. Ever.

[evilshorty]

I hope you're not referring to the /target mob_name_01 trick to see if a mob is up... Cause that bug was fixed a long time ago.


--Pure evil, packaged in a short little gnome--

[Pigeon]

Go fish.

:p

[joshua]

The fact of the matter is, Township Rebellion (the guild who had their player suspended) has been at 'war' with GM Bordael for as long as he's been around on Stormhammer. Bordael did what he could to screw over TR, plain and simple.

If they don't want BS like that to happen to them, they shouldn't mention his name in every other web update. Nobody likes being showed up, especially people who have the 'power' to do something about it.

I'm not siding with the GMs, but TR brought this on themselves, whether they use SEQ or not.

--joshua

[RSB]

Kind of like calling a police officer a pig. It might not be illegal but it isn't going to help you when they are looking for stuff you may have done wrong.

[rizwank]

any hints on what the command is ? ;p

[Dedpoet]

I thought that when a GM was invis, the server didn't send his location to clients. If that is the case (I believe it was these boards where I read that), then even if the guy was using seq, he still wouldn't have seen the GM.

My information could be wrong, but I do remember reading something to that affect.

[Pigeon]

No, it still sends the info. You can also tell if a GM's near you and has gm invis if you have dynamic lights on and he forgot to bag all his lighted items.

[Cryonic]

GM or Guide?

[Dedpoet]

GM or Guide?

That's what I was referring to. What I remember reading is that Guide invis is much like a rogue hiding, but GM invis stopped the sending of location info.

[Cryonic]

Which would concur with my experience. Had a server GM come to help me with a Quest NPC that wasn't responding as it should. He did some things and went invis. Vanished from SEQ, but as far as I could tell was still "in" the zone on the server.

[Gnomish One]

I can confirm there is at least one command in game that will let you know if a mob is up regardless of where it is in the zone (similar to the way /tar worked before they fixed it).

Without getting explicit, think about various commands that require a name and think about various ways that in game names can be represented. With enough experimentation you should be able to find that of which I speak.

I don't know if this would work on an invis GM though (I suspect it would... if the server knows he's there, the command would probably indicate it, regardless of what the client knows).

Also, they might be talking about the assist the pet you've told to attack him trick (if that still works). I doubt that would work on an invis GM though.

[Gnomish One]

Gah, first post on these boards... oh well, even on the old boards I never posted much. For those that want to take the trouble searching my posts back there, we were talking about the Thurg Gate potion to Tanik part of the 4th shawl quest.

Still useful, if boring.

[patheticpeople]

You guys are pathetic. Why give all the hints you can as to the command and not just say it?

the command is /guildinvite by a guild officer.

You can guild invite a in zone mob for the message of if they are in zone or not.

God, dont hint at something and try to hold it over peoples heads.

[Cryonic]

This isn't an exploit board. Want that, go to hackersquest.

[patheticpeople]

Bullshit, I like showeq as much as the next person but this IS an exloit board. After all showeq is nothing more then a program that exploits the presence of information in the data stream that the client is designed not to show us. Don't be a hypocrite.

[Cryonic]

So, because these boards are specifically about one exploit (ShowEQ) that makes them about all exploits for EQ?

[fryfrog]

thats interesting, i never knew the /guildinvite command could be used to verify the presence of mobs :)

i don't think he meant to say that we doing "exploit" certain information by using seq, i think he meant it more in the doing illegal things with the client itself... and i don't mean against the law illegal, i mean "windows has had an illegal operation" type illegal :)

we all know we are cheating, but i think it can be seperated from other types of cheating such as duping quite easily, as showeq usage doesn't really negativly effect much of the game for many reasons such as its very low usage amongst players and its inability to actually enact any CHANGE in the client/server.

[Pigeon]

Great... if VI reads these boards, they'll nerf it. Thanks.

But yeah. This is a "showeq" board, not an "exploit" board.

[patheticpeople]

yeah cause of course they arent smart enough to know about the command on their own...not like they play the game at all or anything.

And it isnt an exloit. Not any more so then showeq is. If verant didnt want that command to be used for that they shouldnt have coded it that way.

[fryfrog]

i have to agree, if the command is there and it works like that... then how can it truely be exploiting? i would not feel bad if they FIXED it, but i wouldn't think they should be able to ban/suspend anyone for using their own command :)

[Pigeon]

i would not feel bad if they FIXED it,

I would. :D That's how my guild gets about a third of their info as to whether a mob is up or not heh. Half of it's with ranjur tracking/non-kos peeps walking right up to 'em... I presume there's a fair bit of SEQ usage too, (ie, not just by me) but it's not discussed in any in-game channels.

(Guild_Leader00 tells the guild, "So I was looking at my SEQ screen, and I mean this train was HUGE. At least 25 mobs." Stupid_GM43 tells the guild, "Hi! This is assistant GM Stupid_GM43. You're banned! Have a nice day.")


but i wouldn't think they should be able to ban/suspend anyone for using their own command :)

Well, they did.

Anyway I think it's an exploit. It's part of the game that isn't "working as intended" that can be used for a purpose it's not meant to do, aka exploiting it. That being said, it shouldn't be punishable in any way because it has so little impact on the game. (and would require the editing of one line of code- not even code- to fix- change lines 12250 and 12248 in eqstr_en.txt to give the same message (and yes, I know this wouldn't fully solve the problem))

Heh, now that I think about it, the main result of this is that people don't use SEQ as much.

[dirfrops]

Yeah, I did a /who all GM once and got nothing...even did a /who all <GM's name> and still showed nothing, but I was able to see him in the Bazaar all the same, and he showed up on SEQ also.

[orenwolf]

When a GM is /anon, or /roleplay, they don't show up on the GM list. Their name will also be blue, which means if they hide their GM-only items, you won't even know they're a GM unless you recognize them by name.

[scooby_x]

Hmm, I wonder how many GM's use SEQ privately, or even worse, if the child eating bastards post in the threads on this board? Well if you are reading this GM, why don't you help someone who actually needs help doing something legit rather than lurking around a guild event in case they might do something you don't like. You remind me of egotistical cops... find something more useful to do with your time than vengeance.

-- This from a guy who was neither here nor there, and bases everything on hearsay!--

Bad GM, No Pizza.

[Ratt]

Verant has their own in house version of SEQ (Windows based even, I believe) ...

I can't imagine being a GM without SEQ, it's an invaluable tool for many, many things.

[Mr. Suspicious]

scooby_x:
You remind me of egotistical cops... find something more useful to do with your time than vengeance.

Someone speeds on the highway and drives fast past scooby_x; scooby_x: Darn cops, they never ticket those egotistical speeders!

scooby_x speeds on the highway and cops ticket him; scooby_x: Darn egotistical cops, why don't they find something more useful to do with their time than vengeance.

Hint: It's their job. And in the above example, it's you doing the wrong, not them.

Don't worry, your reasoning is exactly the same as 95% of humanity follows. It's the "Not in my Backyard" idea. "Everyone should follow high morals and values... as long as it's not me that has to follow them." (G. Bush Sr., B. Clinton, G. Bush Jr., M. Tysson, etc. etc. etc. etc.)

[scooby_x]

*DISCLAIMER*
-this post has nothing to do with the original post about someone being banned from EQ by using SEQ. The following paragraphs describe the general posting habits of member "Scooby_X" and the general mood of said member’s replies to non-technical issues.
*DISCLAIMER*

Sorry all, I guess I should have specified a degree of sarcasm in my post. Usually sarcasm is easy to detect but I can see that my post is very subtle in that regard. I was mistaken in thinking that the line “-- This from a guy who was neither here nor there, and bases everything on hearsay!—“ Would indicate some form of comedic value and dismiss any extreme views that I might indicate in my attack on GM’s and Police Officers.
So to make this clear for some of those that might think otherwise I believe in order, leadership, and responsibility. I believe that leadership and responsibility are intertwined in such a way that one begets the other. I believe it is possible that some leaders and providers of order take a certain degree of liberty in their duties and abuse some of the inherent power of their station. In some cases this can lead to a kind of egoism. In the case of this particular GM there could have been some influence of his station and power to promote his personal ambitions and agenda. I know that of my friends who are police officers, they often recall stories involving this same kind of abuse of power. It is in this regard that I made my jest on the situation.

I appreciate the work of Mr. Suspicious in pointing this out to me. With his incredible insight and ability to document my flaws as a driver out of a three-sentenced paragraph about the possible abuse of power by leaders in respect to a community, I now understand that I am completely hypocritical. I am glad he is here to provide leadership. Without his hint I wouldn’t have understood the complex philosophy that he is preaching. I am glad that he is in the 5% minority that doesn’t jump on the “it’s not in my back yard” bandwagon. I have no doubt that he would not in any way fall into the list of people who have forgone their morals and values to promote their own agenda through the use of their leadership and power. We would all do well to march behind the beat of such a well-deserved drummer. Lead on Mr. Suspicious.

Hint: It's their job. And in the above example, it's you doing the wrong, not them.
...Don't worry, your reasoning is exactly the same as 95% of humanity follows. It's the "Not in my Backyard" idea. "Everyone should follow high morals and values... as long as it's not me that has to follow them." (G. Bush Sr., B. Clinton, G. Bush Jr., M. Tysson, etc. etc. etc. etc.)
I apologize to the readers of this thread for this particular post. It has very little to do with the original topic, one that should concern all users of SEQ, and has everything to do with illuminating the mood of a post I made about that topic. Mr. Suspicious is a constant contributor to these forums in many technical and non-technical topics. His views and beliefs are often represented in them. I have read many of them and I implore you all to do the same.

Magnos amicos saipe aedifico.