Unexplained XP Wackiness

[deadbane]

Dinged 60...I immediatly turned attention to AA. Never touched AA Previous to dinging 60.
Set it at 90aa/10Level

seq says level 60 costs 35Million.
seq says AA costs 15Million.

According to Everquest I am now 10% into my level...half a yellow and have earned 1AA +61% of a Second AA.

SEQ Says I am now 10% into My level and 55% into my second AA. /boggle. OK....so Maybe they changed how much xp it takes to get an AA to 14Million.

Now the real confusion....
10% of 35Million. (Which seems accurate since seq is reporting the same % as EQ.) == 3.5 Million. Since I am spending 10% into Real XP total gained since I dinged 60 should be 35Million. and 90% of that should be 31 Million or TWO AA. NOT 1 aa and 61%.

Anyone wanna take a shot at it? Hope ya can follow my math. Basically, SEQ is either not reporting the xp earned/awarded correctly especially when aa/level xp is split OR EQ is doing somthing wacky with XP now.

[fryfrog]

you don't live in a cave and somehow manage to patch your eq without actually reading the "news" do you?

they drastically changed a lot of things, including the "removal" of hell levels from 50-60. they also added some modifiers to mobs that are closer to your level, and have done possibly some other things... check out some of the long ass XP threads already here :)

[e@tme]

If they removed the hell levels, why does SEQ still till me that i need 26million to ding 52? Why is this double what i needed to ding 50.

Why is lvl 54 still a massive difference from 53?

This confuses me. I do hope that the xp penalty on death has been removed

Any Takers?

[Cryonic]

Because SEQ hasn't been updated with the new exp points for the 51-60 levels.

[fryfrog]

they have to actually figure this stuff out, using math and some sort of brain or something. vi doesn't just update the exp formulas and then hand them to the seq devs so they can put it into the next release... expect the exp code to be "wacky" for a while, as lots and lots of data is needed to obtain a working "formula" especially when there are many different variables and lots of them are unknown.

[deadbane]

I know its messed up because of the patch. Thats why I am posting.

We are not going to figure out the new formulas without real data like this.

I dont understand the internal methods of seq used to calculate xp but I know someone here does, and I feel this to be useful info for those persons.

Just to write it off as wacky and say "Oh well, dont complain about it, soandso will figure it out" kind of defeats the spirit of the seq community.

Help solve the puzzle or get out of the way :)

[deadbane]

btw here are my thoughts:

59 told me that I needed 95Million to level.
60 tells me I need 35Million.

It seems to me that SEQ tracks Level XP and AA XP Differently.

For Example:

SEQ tracks the % I am into that level.
It is tracking 1/390th of a level, not real xp.

If we believe AA to be unchanged at 15Million/AA. Then 1.61 AA's ==24,150,000 and since I am doing 90/10 my total xp gained is ~27Million.

10% of that total XP is ~2.7 Million. Which would tell us LVL 60 costs 27Million.

Again. That doesnt make sense since we know lvl 60 should be more not less.

[fryfrog]

don't look at percents or anything, they are not accurate in any way. if 1% can represent 100,000 or 120,000 then its not accurate. take a read through the thread 2 or 3 posts down that is like 4 pages long. the best way you can help them is by...

going to a zone, note your REAL EXP (in numbers, not %)
kill something, zone and note your REAL EXP again. subtract.

post lvl of mob, zone, exp gotten and class/race.

just because seq guesses that you need X exp based on the % you have gotten, doesn't mean its anywhere NEAR accurate. see what i mean?

[deadbane]

Ok. Look at it this way. I understand what you are saying but...

I think we all agree the AA is constant. Weather it 15M or whatever. 1AA is 1AA.

Now lets look at a level compared to an AA. PrePatch 1AA was equivilant to level ~50 or 1/5 of 58.

I earned 1.61 AA's and 10% real XP acording to EQ(not SEQ now)...at 90/10.

That would mean 60 costs 1.79AA's

Now we all believe an AA to be 15M and have no reason to suspect it changed. That would put lvl 60 at 26,850,000.

How Can this be? We Know they raised level 60, not made it easier.

How can the curve be smooth if lvl 58 used to be 5AA and now lvl 60 is less than 2??

Now do you see what I am saying?

[Cryonic]

If you really want to help us find the new formulas, then:

Ding, IMMEDIATELY zone and using SEQ record the EXACT total numeric exp your character has. Come back to these boards and post your Race, Class and Level along with that total exp.

If enough people do it with enough characters then the SEQ developers (or just normal users) will have an easier time figuring out what the new formulas are for 51 - 60.

This is the ONLY way to truly figure it out.

[Junu Peeth]

If they removed the hell levels, why does SEQ still till me that i need 26million to ding 52? Why is this double what i needed to ding 50.
As far as we can tell the amount of XP needed to ding in each level has NOT CHANGED.

What has changed is how much XP is given to you now for killing the same mobs as pre-patch. IE when you are lvl 60 with all XP going into Real (non-AA) XP, you seem to get 75% of the XP that you used to get for killing the exact same mob as pre-patch. (Assuming the mob is less than level 55, thats a different story)

What Cryonic stated about gathering data is a good point there and will help work out end-points for levels.

Also please read a new thread I am about to post about Gathering Data to Calculate the post 6/9 Patch XP Modifiers.

[deadbane]

Thanks for that response Juno....that makes a LOT more sense.
It was hard to gather that from the 4page posts with lots of misinformation.

[e@tme]

Well, sorry for being a bit reticent in getting back to this post - got hammered with RL issues over the last few days :(

Anyways - to get back on topic...

I understood that the SEQ client extrapolated the exp numbers from the client packets - I didn't think that this had been hard-coded into SEQ.

I am more than happy to help provide numbers to you guys as Cryonic says.

Thanks juno for showing me the light *grin* That kinda makes more sense to me. Whats gets me is that the big VI have said they have smoothed the path, but if you say that the exp has not changed, then how can the path have been smoothed?

The only way I can see of the exp path getting smoothed out is if you re-roll your char - this will give you a clean baseline of `smooth-exp'

Following on with the theory of not changing the exp required to ding 52, then it would seem to me that hell levels have not been removed, and the only way I can mitigate the time it will take me to ding 52 is to fight higher lvl npc's. In this way - I - remove the hell level - not VI?

for example:

exp needed to ding 51 = 13mill
exp needed to ding 52 = 26mill

Pre-patch

i fight in the hole at 50 and get an average of 1%exp per kill at zone in - mobs that are typically 40-44

Patch.. i fight in the hole at 50 and get an average of 1%exp per kill at zone in - mobs that are typically 40-44

ding 51 - i now need 26mill exp - but now i get 1%exp from approx 3 mobs at zone in.

This still doesnt change the total exp that i need to ding 52 ergo i am still stuck in purgatory

Hope this makes sense - if not - please point me in the right direction.

[Junu Peeth]

Originally posted by Junu Peeth

What has changed is how much XP is given to you now for killing the same mobs as pre-patch. IE when you are lvl 60 with all XP going into Real (non-AA) XP, you seem to get 75% of the XP that you used to get for killing the exact same mob as pre-patch. (Assuming the mob is less than level 55, thats a different story)


What this means is that when you (as a level 60 character) killed, for example, a level 52 mob you may have gotten 270,400 XP before the patch. Now (post 6/9 patch) when you, as the same level 60 character, kill the same level 52 mob you would get 270400 * 0.75 = 202,800 XP.

As you can see you are getting one-quarter less experience now as compared to pre patch for the same mob. So the amount of XP required to level has not changed but the amount of XP you receive has.

For all levels from 51 to 60 the modifier should be of a value less than 1.0 except for the former hell levels of 54 and 59 which must have a modifier greater than 1.0 to make them easier.

So far we believe to know the modifier for lvl 60 (0.75) and the modifier for levels 56 and 57 (0.95). We need more data to get anywhere else.

All is not so grim though for people in non-hell levels. Yes you do have a harder time levelling off of the same mobs as before. But we are beginning to see a pattern where if you kill mobs that are 5 levels below you or greater (ie for a lvl 60 to kill 55+ mobs) then you see a significant jump in the XP given, far out-weighing any penalty you may recieve from the Hell-level Balancing Modifier. For a level 60 char killing a 55+ mob they get almost twice as much XP as killing a lvl 54 mob, it gets better as the mobs increase in level after that.

** All of these tests have been done with Real XP, not AAXP. That is to be explored when we have our baseline for lvls 51 to 60 discovered.