Do invis GMs/Guides stop transmitting packets to client?

[Tims]

Had a look in the forums, and saw only a couple posts on this subject (ie. http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1426)

Just want to know if this is confirmed or not, or whether perhaps these packets have yet to be identified.

[BitShift]

I needed a rez once, so I took the list of players in the zone (the SEQ list), and sorted down by class to see if there were any anon clerics hanging around. There was a level 60 cleric in the list, so without thinking, I sent him a tell asking for a rez.. You can imagine my surprise when I got a reply back something like "hail, i am sorry but i am unable to help you without you first submitting a petition."

Oh crap, a GM! but when I did /who all GM, and also /who all <the GM's name> , it said none were online. So in that case at least, SEQ did show me an invis GM. I think there might be different levels of invis, some just designed to keep you off the GM list, and some designed to let you snoop around the zone undetected.

I remember a discussion a while back about being able to hear their footsteps even though they're invis, so maybe it's not the greatest invis around...

[NoLiving]

I would think it's foolish to assume that GM's don't have a client that is completely transparent to our clients, I would always assume there is a GM watching what you're typing.

[jeffo]

I'm not 100% sure of this, but here's my summation of what happens with GM's and guides.

guides have no ability to use but one type of invis, and I can vouch for the fact that it does not stop sending the character location to the client. Guide light items show thru invis, as well as footstep sounds.

GM's *MIGHT* be different, but i doubt it. i don't think they have any exclusive control over what packets get sent where by a client. What GM tool *MIGHT* and probably is available to them, is a special client that listens to the server information, alot like showeq does, but with a modified eq client. i cant see it being that difficult to modify the EQ client to function in that way. think of it as terminal access to a eq zone, something near the server that gets all the positional data. then there's no player object for you to receive updates on at all.

even so, this tool would only be available to the full GM's, if even. i would wager probably not even full gm's. They don't even give full GM's more then 1 computer to GM on.

The thing that makes detection tricky, is that in /hideme mode, there arent any ingame flags that i know of to differentiate that player object from any other player object.

The GM flag gets removed (the one that makes their name green) They can zone in in /hideme which means their avatar will show, but their name won't be green, so that won't work.

Also, GM's and Senior guides have the ability to rename themselves, so they can show up on show EQ as a level 1 moss snake, which is invis, so you can't necessarily rely on a list of names of GM's and guides to help you.

One possible solution would be to get guild functionality to work. Most guide avatars are members of a server specific guild, so you could detect that way if showeq had guild function.

Another solution is the guide/gm invis is a different level of invis, that see invis doesnt work on. that would probably be an easy way to differentiate between a regular invis and a guide invis, and pinpoint a guide/GM.... the client would have to know that they are a "special" invis, so in theory this would work with showeq.. I don't have the knowhow to research this and find the offsets for it though :(

im not certain of this either, but i dont think showeq has the ability to determine the GM flag (the piece of information that makes a persons name green, and *GM* show up beside their name in /who) so even if a guide werent in hideme, you wouldnt be able to tell them from show EQ anyway, atleast not with the current build of showeq.

[monster69]

GMs also have the ability to "become" an NPC. As an example, I was cruising through FM one day and I saw on SEQ that the little gnome quest NPC that is usually in the southeast between DL and LoIO zones was actually in the LoIO valley. So, since I was going that way anyway, I cruised over to hail it (just hear the quest conversation) and he starts talking to me conversationally. It was a GM watching the zone! I carefully told him I was just passing through and wanted to hear the quest responses and happily went on my way.

Moral of the story is GMs can be pretty sneaky if they really want to. Just be careful in how you use SEQ.

Monster69

[Dedpoet]

Just be careful in how you use SEQ.

I know this is a little off-topic but the above statement has always been the case. I was in PoG the other night with a single group just to kill some armor mobs. There was already another group in there, and it was obvious that the place had been almost completely cleaned out, as there were very few of the regular armor-dropping mobs up. I was watching their puller b-line for mobs that were several thousand ticks from their camp. A quick check showed that he was a monk, not a tracker. I think running your monk directly at an armor dropping mob in a wide-open low population zone is a pretty good way to get busted. Buddy, if you're reading this you may want to be a little more careful. ;)

[Gullork]

Yes I run across 'tracking' monks all the time. I'm surprised actually how many DO get away with it. Even when I play my tracker I don't make a straight line to my target, and still use the in game tracking feature just in case. Sooner or later tho, they will get busted. :(

[high_jeeves]

Also, watch for people that run straight into trees alot.. I've been in groups with people that will hit the same tree 10 times in a run while pulling, because they are looking at the wrong monitor... (and by their pull paths, they are obvisouly ShowEQ users).

--Jeeves

[mvern]

To answer the original question, full gms can become invis completely, and no packets on them get sent to the client. Guides can't. Guides cant even see gms when they're in that mode :)

[Pigeon]

Originally posted by Dedpoet

I was watching their puller b-line for mobs that were several thousand ticks from their camp. A quick check showed that he was a monk, not a tracker. I think running your monk directly at an armor dropping mob in a wide-open low population zone is a pretty good way to get busted. Buddy, if you're reading this you may want to be a little more careful. ;)

Damnit! I've been found out!

j/k, but I do stuff like that all the time. To be perfectly honest, there's no way to tell if someone's bee lining for a mob unless you're using ShowEQ yourself. Especially in pog, where the best way to pull is to simply pick a direction and start running till you see something. (or it sees you)

I don't really think guides/GM's really give a crap anyway.

[Numbnuts]

GM's have 2 invis modes,
Regular and Super.
If on super invis they receive all the packets but do not transmit their location back to the server.

All you see is them zone in then vanish. That's it. And guides can use Super Invis. But I think you have to be senior first.

[gore]

The most frustrating thing is when you're looking for something and you KNOW it's up, but you're in a group and can't give it away.

You have to rely on the REAL trackers so as not to give yourself away. For example, if I'm passing through a zone and see a mob up I want on SEQ, I'll ask if anybody has it on track. Sometimes you get lucky.

If you're with a tracker who is looking for a mob, you can give him some "hints" as to where you "think" the mob might "usually" be.

Another great thing for dungeons (if you're a mage or another class with "Eye" ability) is to cast your eye into a wall and let it warp around. You can quite believably say that you found the spawn with your eye...

-gore