New XP fomular, confirmed for 50+ blue

[arcturus]

1. I could get exact regular(lvl) xp value, just on second of zoning - include relogin - it will be displayed for while. (and return to X/330 value after zone done.)

2. exact AA xp come up on every zone, include relogin.
almost data was gathered with 100% AA xp, after I got fomular for AA.

3. I was working on xp of light blue con, not so much data on it coz it don't help xping so much. ;)
so this is exact for blue con mob now.

4. It was some hard to me to get white-yellow-red mob as solo, (it can be calculated as party xp, but I didn't try yet too) so 60~70 high-end mob area is not confirmed too.

5. party xp fomular is almost done, with 0.001% error. It could be caused by place of (int) to cut down modifier, just incorrect like 1~4 raw xp point.

6. I couldn't find any class modifier of mob, though I didn't test on hybride type.

7. ZEM is calculated on 60+ popular zone. '50' means it NEED new value. Post them please after you calculate.

8. any correction welcome, first time to post here.
and sorry for poor coding. :)


summary:
codes in PHP, run on ur own server to test please.
(or can ratt put this somewhere?)

XP = level_of_mob^2 * ZEM * Level_Modifier * Party_Modifier

AAXP = 80% of XP, (was on two class of my char - wis based both)

ZEM = 75 : regular field
85 : regular dungeon
100 : GOOD xp zone, like hole
145 : PoP Tier 1 zone!!

Level_Modifier = (260 - 13*(level - mob_level))/100

Party_Modifier = mylevel+5 / (Total_Party_Level + 5*party_number) * group_bonus

group_bonus = 1, 1.02, 1.06, 1.1, 1.14, 1.2 - for each party num


xpcalc.php


<?
$X="<TD>x</TD>";
$eq="<TD>=</TD>";
$partybonus = array(0, 1, 1.02, 1.06, 1.1, 1.14, 1.2);

$allzem = array(
None => 1,
Acrylia => 50 ,
AirPlane => 50 ,
Akanon => 50 ,
Akheva => 85 ,
Arena => 50 ,
Bazaar => 50 ,
Befallen => 50 ,
Beholder => 50 ,
Blackburrow => 50 ,
Bothunder => 50 ,
BurningWood => 50 ,
Butcher => 50 ,
Cabeast => 50 ,
Cabwest => 50 ,
Cauldron => 50 ,
CazicThule => 50 ,
Charasis => 50 ,
Chardok => 50 ,
CityMist => 50 ,
CobaltScar => 75 ,
Codecay => 50 ,
Commons => 50 ,
Crushbone => 50 ,
Crystal => 50 ,
CSHome => 50 ,
Dalnir => 50 ,
Dalnir => 50 ,
Dawnshroud => 50 ,
Dreadlands => 50 ,
Droga => 50 ,
EastKarana => 50 ,
EastWastes => 75 ,
Echoc => 50 ,
Ecommons => 50 ,
EmeraldJungle => 50 ,
ErudnExt => 50 ,
ErudnInt => 50 ,
ErudsXing => 50 ,
Everfrost => 50 ,
FearPlane => 50 ,
Feerrott => 50 ,
FelwitheA => 50 ,
FelwitheB => 50 ,
FieldOfBone => 50 ,
Firiona => 50 ,
FreportE => 50 ,
FreportN => 50 ,
FreportW => 50 ,
FrontierMtns => 50 ,
FrozenShadow => 50 ,
Fungusgrove => 75 ,
Gfaydark => 50 ,
Greatdivide => 75 ,
Griegsend => 50 ,
Grimling => 50 ,
Grobb => 50 ,
Growthplane => 50 ,
GukBottom => 50 ,
GukTop => 50 ,
Halas => 50 ,
HatePlane => 50 ,
Highkeep => 50 ,
Highpass => 50 ,
Hohonora => 50 ,
Hohonorb => 50 ,
Hole => 100 ,
Hollowshade => 50 ,
Iceclad => 50 ,
Innothule => 50 ,
Jaggedpine => 50 ,
Kael => 50 ,
Kaesora => 50 ,
KaladimA => 50 ,
KaladimB => 50 ,
Karnor => 50 ,
Katta => 50 ,
Kedge => 50 ,
KerraRidge => 50 ,
kerraridge2 => 50 ,
Kithicor => 50 ,
Kurn => 50 ,
LakeofIllOmen => 50 ,
LakeRathe => 50 ,
Lavastorm => 50 ,
Letalis => 50 ,
Lfaydark => 50 ,
Maiden => 75 ,
MischiefMaze => 50 ,
Mischiefplane => 50 ,
Mistmoore => 50 ,
Misty => 50 ,
Mseru => 50 ,
Najena => 50 ,
Necropolis => 50 ,
Nektulos => 50 ,
NeriakA => 50 ,
NeriakB => 50 ,
NeriakC => 50 ,
Netherbian => 50 ,
Nexus => 50 ,
Nightmareb => 50 ,
NorthKarana => 50 ,
Nro => 50 ,
Nurga => 50 ,
Oasis => 50 ,
Oggok => 50 ,
OOT => 50 ,
Overthere => 50 ,
Paineel => 50 ,
Paludal => 50 ,
Paw => 50 ,
Permafrost => 50 ,
PermafrostPits => 50 ,
Poair => 50 ,
Podisease => 145 ,
Pofire => 50 ,
Poinnovation => 145 ,
Pojustice => 145 ,
Poknowledge => 50 ,
Ponightmare => 145 ,
Postorms => 50 ,
Potactics => 50 ,
Potorment => 50 ,
Potranquility => 50 ,
Povalor => 145 ,
Powar => 50 ,
Powater => 50 ,
Qcat => 50 ,
Qey2HH1 => 50 ,
Qeynos => 50 ,
Qeynos2 => 50 ,
Qeytoqrg => 50 ,
QRG => 50 ,
Rathemtn => 50 ,
Rivervale => 50 ,
Runnyeye => 50 ,
Scarlet => 50 ,
Sebilis => 85 ,
Shadeweaver => 50 ,
Shadowhaven => 50 ,
SharVahl => 50 ,
Sirens => 50 ,
Skyfire => 50 ,
Skyshrine => 50 ,
Skyshrine2 => 50 ,
Skyshrine3 => 50 ,
Skyshrine_Lower => 50 ,
Skyshrine_Upper => 50 ,
Sleeper => 50 ,
SoldungA => 50 ,
SoldungB => 50 ,
Solrotower => 50 ,
SolTemple => 50 ,
SouthKarana => 50 ,
Sro => 50 ,
Sseru => 50 ,
Ssratemple => 100 ,
Steamfont => 50 ,
Stonebrunt => 50 ,
Swampofnohope => 50 ,
TempleRo => 50 ,
Templeveeshan => 50 ,
Tenebrous => 50 ,
TheDeep => 85 ,
Thegrey => 50 ,
Thurgadina => 50 ,
Thurgadina1 => 50 ,
Thurgadinb => 50 ,
Timorous => 50 ,
Tox => 50 ,
Trakanon => 50 ,
Twilight => 50 ,
Umbral => 90 ,
Unrest => 50 ,
Veeshan => 50 ,
Velketor => 85 ,
Vexthal => 50 ,
Wakening => 75 ,
Warrens => 50 ,
WarsliksWood => 50 ,
Westwastes => 50 ,
);
?>
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Everquest XP calculator</TITLE>
<STYLE TYPE="text/css">
<!--
TD,TH,TR {
text-align: center;
background-color: white;
}
-->
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<form name=prefix method=post>
<table>
<!--<TR><TD>Class modify:</TD><TD>
<input size=4 name=classm value=<?echo $classm?$classm:1?>></TD></TR>-->
<TR><TD>Zone Experience Modifier:</TD><TD>
<select name=zone>
<?
foreach( $allzem as $key => $value ) {
if($value==50) continue;
echo "<option value=$key";
if($zone==$key) echo " selected";
echo ">$key ($value)</option>\n";
}
?>
</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Current Level:</TD><TD>
<input size=4 name=party[0] value=<?echo $party[0]?$party[0]:60?>></TD></TR>
<TR><TD>Party with:</TD><TD>
<? for($i=1; $i<6; $i++)
echo "<input size=4 name=party[$i] value=".($party[$i]?$party[$i]:0).">";
?>
</TD></TR>
</table>
<input type=submit value="Guess!">
</form>
<TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0><TR><TD>
<TABLE BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=1 CELLPADDING=3 BGCOLOR=black>
<TR><TD>Level²</TD><TD></TD><TD>ZEM</TD><TD></TD>
<TD>LevelMod</TD><TD></TD>
<TD>PartyMod</TD><TD></TD>
<TD>Level XP gain</TD><TD>AA XP gain</TD></TR>
<?
for($i=0; $i<6; $i++) if($party[$i]>0) {
$partynum++;
$partytotal+=$party[$i];
}
$partym=(int)($party[0]+5)/($partytotal+5*$partynum)*$partybonus[$partynum];
for ($i=43; $i <= 70; $i++) {
$levelm=($i >= $party[0]-5)?(260-13*($party[0]-$i))/100:1.0;
$zem=$allzem[$zone];
echo "<TR><TD>$i²$X</TD>\n";
echo "<TD>$zem$X</TD>";
//echo "<TD>$classm$X</TD>";
echo "<TD>$levelm$X</TD>";
echo "<TD>$party[0]+5/($partytotal+5*$partynum)*$partybonus[$partynum]$eq</TD>";
echo "<TD>".$xp=(int)($i*$i*$zem*$levelm*$partym)."</TD>";
echo "<TD>".$xp/1.25."</TD>";
echo "</TR>";
}
?>
</table>
</tr></td></table>

</BODY>
</HTML>



[Edit log..]

v1.03
* fixed level_modifier fomular on description, thx suseuser

v1.02
* PoV ZEM added, it's 145 like other PoP zone.

v1.01
* cut line for better look
* edited mis-displayed group mod fomular

v1.00
* initial release

[perlmonkey]

Thanks for the great work! The results are disturbing thought. I'm concerned that unlike other expansions, over time more and more people will go to the PoP zones for the exp, and we'll always be stuck with over-crowded zones. Who would go hunt in any "non-planar" zone if there was no planar exp-bonus to be had? Why go back to grinding levels anywhere but PoD, PoN, PoJ and PoI?

Hmmm.

[KaL]

Why would anyone go to a non-planar zone to get XP?

1. They aren't flagged for various reasons.

2. Planar zones too full.

3. Soloing/2-boxing/macroing XP somewhere easy.

[nok]

thank you very much for all of your effort here, well done!

[arcturus]

thanks all,

but *WE* need more ZEM value I think. ;)

it is quite easy to calculate.

1. do fresh login, and see your AA xp section.
there should be raw AA xp there. (it's true value) - (OldAA)
You can work with regular lvl XP, but AA is better to write down coz it do not move after logon. (and AAxp 100%)

2. kill something, solo is better but group is not so bad. and get exp. You should write down level of mob which you take down.

3. logout / login or zone to somewhere. then new REAL AA value will appear on AA xp section. - (NewAA)

4. open xpcalc php page, and pur your/party level on that. and choose None(1) for ZEM. after you press "Guess!" button, you can get AA value for level of mob, without Zone modification. - (RawAA)

5. use your favorite calculator,
(NewAA - OldAA) / RawAA => ZEM for that zone.


(ex) You are 61th, and group with 60th.
1. your OldAA is 8,470,070
2. you killed 56lv mob.
3. after relogin, NewAA was 8,834,604
4. enter 61 on your level, and fill 60 on first slot of party,
you can see RawXP for 56 is 3142, and rawAA is 2513.6
5. calculate,
( 8,834,604 - 8,470,070 ) / 2513.6
= 145.02466581795035009548058561426

so we can guess ZEM for this zone is 145. (and POST it here!!!) :D

I am not in even middle guild, so almost do not have keys/flags. so I need help of you to complete these ZEM.

[suseuser7341]

First of all thank you for the work done.

I am really interested (and who doesn't want to know how to optimize that tiring exp part), but comparing your describtion and the PHP code I got some questions:

- first in the PHP you use levelm = (260 - 13* (mylevel - mob_level) )/ 100 in the above describtion something like levelm = (260 - 13* ( mylevel - (mylevel - mob_level) ) )/ 100. I guess the PHP is right ?

- In the PHP you set the level modifier to 1 if the mob is more than 5 level below the player. This is nowhere described, but causes a huge jump for a level 60 fighting mobs around 55. Until now any idea if that limit is Level depended ? (eg level/10 ?)

[fester]

Level limit is always minus five from your current level.

I am rather sure it also is only trigger if you and the mob are both level 50 and up. (I thought it was 51, but he hints otherwise.)

So, mob > 5 levels below you or either < level 50, then levelm = 1.

This is why EXP is horrible at level 61 and up anywhere but the planes of power it seems.

[speedracer]

Your info above is highly useful, and many thanks for working out the details. I was never able to figure out why my XP wasn't what I thought it should be, until I saw that AA is penalized 20%, and then it worked out perfectly! =)

However, I do have a question regarding the following modifier:

"Level_Modifier = (260 - 13*(level - mob_level))/100"

Now, I am level 60, and the other night I was hunting Sun Revenants in the Grey (ZEM 75). These mobs are all supposedly level 55.

They should be worth:

55*55*75*.8*1.95 = 353,925 XP, or 2.36% of an AA (assuming an AA is 15MXP)

However, I killed 24 of these mobs, and got exactly 48% AA, and it was exactly 2% for each one killed. So the level_modifier formula appears to be off. It also means they were all at least 55, since I get no level bonus for level 54 mobs.

For mobs lower than 55 (i.e., no level_modifier bonus), the XP formula works perfectly, so I'm sure the discrepancy here lies in the level_modifier formula.

Thanks for the help!

SR

[Cryonic]

What is sent to the client while you are in the zone is just the movement of the bars (e.g. 1/330 of total exp). When SEQ is working, you have to zone to see the correct total amount of exp gained (both normal and AA). Relying on the bar they give you isn't accurate.

[uncleubb]

I agree with you Cryonic in general, but assuming speedracer's percentage aaxp computation per kill is correct, wouldn't you see an additional 1% (approx.) every three kills (even without zoning)?

If his calculations are correct, speedracer should have ended up with approximately 56% AA xp under the formula instead of 48% he actually received...

[speedracer]

Cryonic,

I don't have SEQ, so am unable to answer your question.

But, yes, if it were due to rounding, I should have seen the percentage give me more than 2% at some point. That's why I killed so many in a row, to get a real good idea of what percentage it was giving me.

SR

[Cryonic]

That is based on the assumption that all the mobs he killed were the same level. If even a couple of them were less than the expected level, they would throw off the calculation (another thing that is easy to identify when SEQ is running).

[speedracer]

From my post:

"However, I killed 24 of these mobs, and got exactly 48% AA, and it was exactly 2% for each one killed. So the level_modifier formula appears to be off. It also means they were all at least 55, since I get no level bonus for level 54 mobs."

So that's not the answer, either. If any of them had been 54 (or less), I would have gotten much less than 2% for the kill (I'm 60, so I only get bonus XP for 55+), level 54 mobs give me about 1,16% AA.

When I said earlier that I got exactly 2% AA for each kill, I mean the AAXP display in my EQ GUI showed 2% gains each time. You could make the argument that I was occasionally getting a sub-55 mob, giving less than 2% AAXP, mixed in with other, 55+ mobs giving the expected 2.36% AAXP, and it worked out just right so that I always saw a 2% AAXP gain. The odds of that? Well, pretty darn remote =)

That, and all the info on the net for these mobs states that they're always level 55 =)

SR

PS - Oh yeah, if I didn't state it before, I have XP set to 100% AA

[Cryonic]

Well, when SEQ is back up and working it will be easy to verify this. Until then, I don't trust the pretty bars that the EQ client uses to display the information. Its accuracy is not very good, but since the exact total is/was sent everytime you zoned, it could be checked to see exactly how much your XP/AAXP moved each time you killed a mob and what level that mob was.

[erice2]

Back when seq was working I went grinding there often. ALL the sun revs are 55, no exceptions.

[SeqTester]

Also hunted Revs and confirming they are ALL 55 and do not summon.

[speedracer]

Well, hunting level 56 and 57 mobs in PoN, I've been getting the AAXP that the formula would indicate, so either there's something wierd going on in the Grey, or (more likely) I screwed up when keeping track of my XP off the Sun Revs. Next time I get to the Grey and hunt them, I will track my XP (manually, no SEQ here) and report back.

Thanks for the help!

SR

[fester]

I noticed that his original information was VERY VERY accurate for me. Every instance where I checked it, I got numbers I expected. The ONLY exception for me was for mobs MORE than 5 levels above me and/or while grouped with people who were all higher level than the mobs, but the mobs were within 5 levels below them. In this case, I get normal exp (100 % instead of 195 % and up from the mob level formula).

As a summary for me:

AA is 100 percent of EXP not 80 % as you said (the original poster used their EXP/AA setting at 80 % to determine the differences from normal to AA exp.)

Raid EXP is 60 % percent of EXP *AND* no group bonuses.

The increased EXP multiplier ranges from below your level by 5 to above your level by 5 (or only 10 levels of uber exp.)

[speedracer]

Well, I have found that AAXP IS nerfed by 20%.

I.E. if you figure out how much XP a mob should give, then multiply by .8, that is how much AAXP you get. And, yes, I have AA set to 100%.

SR

[datadog]

If it is helpful, i will also confirm that Sun Revs always spawn level 55.

[fester]

This troubles me, as I had verified that this formula worked for at least 9 different calculations I measured before raw AA exp values were removed from the charprofile and replaced with 0 to 330 values.

The concept of them (after that point) nerfing AA by 20percent is troublesome.

Can you recalculate the exp given?

There is a way to detemine exactly how much exp is given. This involves using one of the well know (I will not name them by name) exp quests that give LOW amounts of exp, many many times when you are close to AA ding. Then killing a mob until close to AA ding again (same mob, same level, same zone), then doing the quest until second AA ding. With the KNOWN value of the quest EXP (old world quest), you can solve for AA per kill in numerical (0-15mil) and then verify the 80 vs 100 percent.

I will do so when I have free time again, I hope this week.

[speedracer]

I have used the formulas posted in this thread for my main, and it always seems to work perfectly. However, I've recently started to level up some of my alts, and the XP I'm getting is way less than I'm expecting. I'm not sure if the "bonus XP" is where the discrepancy occurs, or if it's the way XP is divided between group members.

I had my main (62 WE druid) group with my 51 Erudite enchanter. In PoN, we we're killing gargoyles (all level 57), and the XP the chanter was getting only made sense if she wasn't getting any bonus XP. So I thought maybe you don't get any bonus XP if the mob is more than 5 levels above you, so I dragged her to the Grey, and killed Sun Revs (all level 55), and she still got XP as if there were no bonus XP.

In the one case, my main did appear to be getting bonus XP, as expected. In the other case, no bonus XP would be earned since the mobs were more than 5 levels below.

One assumption I had been making was that XP was divided for group members A and B as A/(A+B) and B/(A+B). Is this not correct?

So what's the deal, does anyone have any idea?

Thanks for any help you can offer!

[Deminq]

copying and pasting your php into a dedicated page on my webserver, I get a division by zero error on line 479, which corresponds to:

$partym=(int)($party[0]+5)/($partytotal+5*$partynum)*$partybonus[$partynum];

Any ideas?

[fester]

Originally posted by speedracer
I had my main (62 WE druid) group with my 51 Erudite enchanter. In PoN, we we're killing gargoyles (all level 57), and the XP the chanter was getting only made sense if she wasn't getting any bonus XP. So I thought maybe you don't get any bonus XP if the mob is more than 5 levels above you, so I dragged her to the Grey, and killed Sun Revs (all level 55), and she still got XP as if there were no bonus XP.

Check my post about 6 up from your last post.

Since sometimes I don't state things very clear (and didn't then) I will restate:

Cases where you don't get bonus:

1) group with a group where the average level is greater than 5 levels above you.
2) killing mobs greater than 5 levels above you.
3) killing mobs greater than 5 levels below you.

This really only harms power leveling with a low level player in a high level zone.

There also seems to be a few other odd cases and I suspect this is one:
1) group with someone >5 level above you and they do all or most of the damage.
2) group where the average is less than 5 levels above you but the highest member is more than 5 above you.

In short, I havent found any way to kill with a higher level and get bonus on the lower EXCEPT killing ungrouped with the lower level and use higher levels for healing, buffing, nuke down from 20% etc.

[jonseq]

Do Fester's rules (within 5 of avg group lvl or higher) apply to the group bonus as well as the level bonus? Does the level bonus apply when the player is below level 51/50? When the mob is below level 51/50?

[fester]

From my testing the group bonus (20 % for 2 to %80 percent for 5) does apply. The bonus exp based off level did not.

Level bonus does apply for at least a level 40 to 44 character range killing mobs between level 35 and 50 (they were the only sub 51 level players I have measured.)

All my testing (using raw numbers) was done before the removal of the raw values. All testing since then involved the tick (1/330) calculations and dealing with a 40k exp margin of error. I would kill multiple mobs (of same level) to get a more accurate scale.

[speedracer]

Thank you for your quick and detailed reply!

[monklett]

Originally posted by speedracer
From my post:

"However, I killed 24 of these mobs, and got exactly 48% AA, and it was exactly 2% for each one killed. So the level_modifier formula appears to be off. It also means they were all at least 55, since I get no level bonus for level 54 mobs."

So that's not the answer, either. If any of them had been 54 (or less), I would have gotten much less than 2% for the kill (I'm 60, so I only get bonus XP for 55+), level 54 mobs give me about 1,16% AA.

When I said earlier that I got exactly 2% AA for each kill, I mean the AAXP display in my EQ GUI showed 2% gains each time. You could make the argument that I was occasionally getting a sub-55 mob, giving less than 2% AAXP, mixed in with other, 55+ mobs giving the expected 2.36% AAXP, and it worked out just right so that I always saw a 2% AAXP gain. The odds of that? Well, pretty darn remote =)

That, and all the info on the net for these mobs states that they're always level 55 =)

SR

PS - Oh yeah, if I didn't state it before, I have XP set to 100% AA

Wasn't exp in the grey nerfed a while back? As I recall, the ZEM was 85 (like a dungeon) and then got nerfed down, although I don't know the new value.

Did the formula work for you in other places?

[speedracer]

Originally posted by fester
Check my post about 6 up from your last post.

Since sometimes I don't state things very clear (and didn't then) I will restate:

Cases where you don't get bonus:

1) group with a group where the average level is greater than 5 levels above you.
2) killing mobs greater than 5 levels above you.
3) killing mobs greater than 5 levels below you.

This really only harms power leveling with a low level player in a high level zone.

There also seems to be a few other odd cases and I suspect this is one:
1) group with someone >5 level above you and they do all or most of the damage.
2) group where the average is less than 5 levels above you but the highest member is more than 5 above you.

In short, I havent found any way to kill with a higher level and get bonus on the lower EXCEPT killing ungrouped with the lower level and use higher levels for healing, buffing, nuke down from 20% etc.

OK, still in search of an answer on this issue. Any help or insight is appreciated:

Chanter is now 52, Warrior is 51, Druid is still 62. Grouped together at WW (level 51-53) in PoN, chanter and warrior get no bonus XP, whether they help with the kill or not.

Same levels, Druid is ungrouped (so it's just chanter and warrior). Killing PoN yard trash (WW was camped, mobs still 51-53). Druid cast the following spells the whole fight: 1 snare, 2 roots, 1 DS, 5 heals. Druid did no damage at all. Chanter and warrior STILL got no bonus XP. What's the deal?

Thanks!

[Cryonic]

How are you checking the amount of EXP each character is getting?
Actual numeric EXP is only sent when you zone. The rest of the time the server just sends you updates when the client needs to update the xp bar display (every 1/330th of the level). So the only way to see how much numeric exp you gained is to zone, record number, kill mob, zone out, record new number, take difference.

Do you have some exp going to AA? I believe that AA takes from the prebonus EXP and then the rest (what went to level) is given the bonus.

[jonseq]

What is your methodology for measuring 'no bonus exp'?

In both scenarios you should get it; what makes you certain that you aren't?

[jonseq]

AA per kill definitely jumps from a con 6 levels below you to 5 levels below. That's what we're talking about when we say 'bonus exp', isn't it?

[perlmonkey]

Originally posted by fester

In short, I havent found any way to kill with a higher level and get bonus on the lower EXCEPT killing ungrouped with the lower level and use higher levels for healing, buffing, nuke down from 20% etc.
The old method used to be to be ungrouped with a druid, ranger, etc. The high level character would place their largest damage shield on themselves and pull a crowd of greens (red to the PLee). As the greens died on the DS, the PLee would poke each one once for at least one damage, but NOT get agro (thus no costly healing of the low-level punk). Ideally you picked a zone with a good zem and mobs that fight to the death.

Usually a druid would pull with something really high agro like snare or a big debuff. I don't know what the best ranger argro-generator is.

Does this no longer work?

As for the 5-levels thing, I do think SOE has worked hard to make sure PLing is no longer easy, however there are still some major holes in this:

1. Pet classes who have a mage to summon high level items (or buy in the bazaar)
2. Pet classes can have 65th level buffs put on their pets (have you ever watched a level 10 cleric try to heal a level 10 mage pet that has Virtue and Fo7.... it's funny).
3. A very high level debuff against a level 30 mob makes it pretty unimpressive to a 25th level toon :)
4. Chanters can still do the old mem-wipe based PLing trick
5. Bards... sigh, bards ;-)
6. Twinking, of course, though recommended levels have nerfed that a bit. One thing to note about twinking is that most of the new 'super-stacking' effects like regen and vengance work at level 1 even when the item has a recommended level.

Hope this helps.

[fester]

Originally posted by jonseq
AA per kill definitely jumps from a con 6 levels below you to 5 levels below. That's what we're talking about when we say 'bonus exp', isn't it?

Yes. What makes me certain is that I have done extensive testing. There are a number of cases where you will not get the bonus even if the mobs are within "bonus levels" of your level. The group members levels can "disable" your ability to obtain the bonus exp (e.g. a group member is 5 levels above you or the mob.)


Originally posted by Cryonic
How are you checking the amount of EXP each character is getting?
Actual numeric EXP is only sent when you zone. The rest of the time the server just sends you updates when the client needs to update the xp bar display (every 1/330th of the level). So the only way to see how much numeric exp you gained is to zone, record number, kill mob, zone out, record new number, take difference.

Do you have some exp going to AA? I believe that AA takes from the prebonus EXP and then the rest (what went to level) is given the bonus.

Checking by killing the same level mob repeatedly and calculating the /330 value to estimate the exp given. You can get within a few thousand points of the raw exp by killing 10 of the same level mob.

Actual numbers are no longer sent during zone and have not been for many months.

100 percent going to AA, this eliminates the "level exp" bonus/penalty. For instance, level 60 when last checked was 75 percent (a penalty,) level 59 was 95 percent, and I believe I remember level 55 being 115 percent (a bonus.) This was all mapped out when the "got rid of hell levels." This bonus/exp was used to make hell levels faster and non-hell levels slower.

AA does not get the "hell level" bonus/penalty. AA does get the level based (-5 to +5 mob level) exp.

[fester]

One interesting point, on the Oct 9th patch, they revamped the ZEM in every zone I visit. They probably changed the ZEM for the majority of exp zones. There really needs to be a "new" collection of ZEMs in light of this. With raw exp removed from charprofile (when it shrunk from 11,000 bytes to 4,000 bytes), there is far too much work involved with determining raw numbers. It is also possible they may have changed the exp formulas. Especially if they no longer accurately map the events.

[Dark]

I might be blind but is the ZEM shown anywhere on the SEQ screen.
I have looked at the terminal window when zoning and spotted it there.

Has anyone got a link to a list of all the zones and the ZEM (doesnt have to be related to SEQ)?

[Cryonic]

The first post of this thread has most of the old ZEM values.

[Dark]

Yup saw that but its dated 12m mths ago and i'm sure that there have been a few changes since then.

[Zaphod]

We now get and display the actual ZEM values upon zoning in the terminal window. The experience window hasn't been updated to use this ZEM value yet, mostly because it would require changing a bunch of the formulas (because they are based on a theoretical calculation of an integer ZEM value as opposed to being passed a precision float value).

Enjoy,
Zaphod (dohpaZ)

[Dedpoet]

Usually a druid would pull with something really high agro like snare or a big debuff. I don't know what the best ranger argro-generator is.

Does this no longer work?

Yes, this still works, but it's actually not as efficient as casting the DS directly onto the PLee and having them pull. That way they get their melee skills up in the process, don't get KS'd as often, and if your PLer has kei/tranq/whatever the healing isn't bad as long as you're not killing too far out of your league. Kunark dungeons are the best zones for this...nothing runs.

[jonseq]

<quote>There are a number of cases where you will not get the bonus even if the mobs are within "bonus levels" of your level. The group members levels can "disable" your ability to obtain the bonus exp (e.g. a group member is 5 levels above you or the mob.) </quote>

That sucks. I was operating under the avg group level within 5 of PLee assumption, but never did any tests myself.

So you've grouped say, a lvl 60 and 65, killing lvl 55 mobs, and got no bonus exp, but with the 65 ungrouped, you got it?

The group members too high - could that be based on an average of all the group members other than yourself?

That definitely seems to put a damper on PLing, or at least, makes it more sensible to have the PLer DS-tank massive numbers of low dark blues for as many levels as feasible.

[Circles]

Originally posted by Zaphod
We now get and display the actual ZEM values upon zoning in the terminal window. The experience window hasn't been updated to use this ZEM value yet, mostly because it would require changing a bunch of the formulas (because they are based on a theoretical calculation of an integer ZEM value as opposed to being passed a precision float value).

Enjoy,
Zaphod (dohpaZ)

actual as in your riping from the client or actual using a table that needs to be hand fed? I ask cause butcher block used to be a 160 zem, as are all newbie zones, yet showeq a few nights ago listed it as a 75

[fester]

Originally posted by jonseq
So you've grouped say, a lvl 60 and 65, killing lvl 55 mobs, and got no bonus exp, but with the 65 ungrouped, you got it?

The group members too high - could that be based on an average of all the group members other than yourself?

That definitely seems to put a damper on PLing, or at least, makes it more sensible to have the PLer DS-tank massive numbers of low dark blues for as many levels as feasible.

It seems to use the average group level and if you are outside 5 levels of the average and inside the group, you do not get the bonus.

Also, there seems to have been a change with DS. DS damage used to be assigned to no one and whoever actually deals damage will get the exp when a mob is killed by DS. Recently this was changed where the person wearing the DS gets the credit. This requires the PL'd character to take the hits and deal some damage to his attackers to get exp. You can no longer pull a number of mobs with a high level wearing DS and beat on them once by the low level to get exp.


Originally posted by Circles
actual as in your riping from the client or actual using a table that needs to be hand fed? I ask cause butcher block used to be a 160 zem, as are all newbie zones, yet showeq a few nights ago listed it as a 75


I believe you are confused, I have never know BB to be anything other than 0.75 ZEM. PC was the first zone to have 1.60 ZEM. LOIO was once 1.0 ZEM and consider the best newbie zone.

[speedracer]

"Also, there seems to have been a change with DS. DS damage used to be assigned to no one and whoever actually deals damage will get the exp when a mob is killed by DS. Recently this was changed where the person wearing the DS gets the credit. This requires the PL'd character to take the hits and deal some damage to his attackers to get exp. You can no longer pull a number of mobs with a high level wearing DS and beat on them once by the low level to get exp"

Still worked for me a few weeks ago (early December) in ToFS. Pulling about 8 2nd floor mobs, letting them beat on me and go OOM, then dragging over to 2 lower level toons. Mobs were generally below 50% life before low levels engaged. They got the XP every time, every mob. Did this for 2 nights, couple hours each, and had no trouble.