Lets consider, being considerate.

[Aardvark]

Just something to consider folks... You don't have to be a dick all the time.

By reading:

The current md5sum of libEQ.a (28/Oct/02): ddaac48baaa3e9b015984a366748ed72
Use of any other libEQ.a is not recommended and could be a possible trojan.

The current memory offset is 0x007c1950 as of 28 Jan 03 (If there has been a patch since this date, it may not be accurate or updated yet)

It would lead me to believe its working, alas it isn't though.

Granite that is for dev folks I'm sure. But the dev folks are part of the "in crowd" they don't need to be told that most of the time. I think its a little misleading.

A simple Green light for good and red light for bad would suffice.
As to whether the current CVS / Libeq is working.

Unfortunately there is no IQ test to come onto this msg board. That seems to bother some of the folks, I bite into the "use the search button" on the forum I frequent as well. Upon coming here though, I think I will do that ALOT less. On the forum I frequent, is just that, I read it day in and day out, so for me to use the search forum would be easy because I've already read it and know what to search for. However coming here where I haven't read it all and don't know who's post to look for definative answers. Well it leaves too much to find.

The Forum I go to isn't much of a "technical" forum either, I wouldn't say the average IQ of where I frequent is near as high as it is here. Which in itself is a shame because you folks know that the nekkid and untrained eye can't see where the problem is. Just know that it is or isn't working. Much less know how to fix it.

To the ones that put up a fancy
http://seq.sourceforge.net/search.php?s= (Search) Search (http://seq.sourceforge.net/search.php?s=) links and all these slap happy flames, a simple "not yet" or "yea, re-CVS and compile" would certainly suffice.

[Pigeon]

We've had this discussion hundreds of times already. Search before you post please.

:D

[cbreaker]

I don't see what the problem is. IQ has nothing to do with knowing if SEQ is broken or not.

If it's not working for you, a REALLY simple look around, even *without* searching, should tell anyone that SEQ is not working right now.

Why should the people that frequent this forum have to hand-hold all the people that can't figure something VERY BASIC (is seq in a working state) out?

This isn't a commercial product. You can throw them a few bucks if you want, but that's not "paying" for it. Thus, there's no reason to tailor to the people that are too lazy to look for a moment and see what the problem is.

For the person that posts the message "Is SEQ working?" it's just a little post. They think, "Why do people give me so much shit for one little post when you could just say NO?" The problem is that there's *so* many redundant questions like this that fill the forum with crap.

Like Ratt has said in the past, if you can't figure this out, then he really doesn't want you here. So stop wasting our time with these posts.

[coolzero16]

when seq isnt working and its working for everyone else then i see absolutely justified reasons to ASK what someone would think isnt working.. a simple anwser like you didnt install the right packages or u didnt setup the network properly along with USE THE SEARCH BUTTON would then give the noob enuf information to look up the information themselves..it also helps future noobs who try to use the search forums in vain when they find 99% of the posts saying USE THE SEARCH.


although.....

This isn't a commercial product. You can throw them a few bucks if you want, but that's not "paying" for it.

i agree with this statement in the fact that anyone who helps someone out on the forums is NOT getting payed for customer kiss-ass service....buuut if you really cant stand all these "idiots" asking questions then why dont u resist the temptation to click on the Help Desk

PS: if they ask a question in General Discussion they deserve a kick in the face

[cbreaker]

I feel somewhat the same way; you don't have to reply if you don't want to. At the same time though, when a legitimate search is performed, you often have to surf through a lot of garbage posts to get to the answer.

Fact is, most problems with setting up seq have been answered. And to tell you the truth, it's really not hard to install even for a novice. The INSTALL.newbies file is very helpful and so are the others. If you really expect to install Linux and then SEQ easily with zero knowledge of anything pre-windows XP, you need to expect that it's going to take a little work. Searching is key.

If you have some strange problem, then by all means ask about it. The reason people get so pissed is because someone will ask "Why doesn't xyz work?" You then search on "xyz" and find three posts about it.

The reason I keep an eye on the help forum is because maybe someone will post something that has not been answered three hundred times, and I'd like to help that person. Also, by watching the forums I might learn something that I didn't know yesterday. Telling people to "just stay away then" isn't a valid solution.

[Lyroschen]

Originally posted by coolzero16
PS: if they ask a question in General Discussion they deserve a kick in the face

::shrug:: It's not my world, I just live here. The flames aren't necessary, but they give the gifted few an opportunity to express their dissatisfaction with their world being invaded by novices.

It's kind of like being a hoity toity country club member and seing some schlepp in their sweats and t-shirts walking down the golf course. Are they bad people 'cause they dress down? Nope, they're just in the wrong environment, and possibly an intolerant one.

Just because someone's not knowledgable doesn't make them deserve poor treatment, they just become a target in an intolerant world. I know I hate going to a technical discussion chat, and seeing "Age/Sex check please". What can you do? You can ban them, you can flame them, you can spend countless hours debating their value on the internet in general... or as some do, you can pen up your frustration, and let it loose on anyone and everyone that reminds you of them.

Once apon a time ::wavy lines and theater smoke indicating a journey to the past:: only the true geeks with more computer knowledge than was useful could use the internet. They could discuss their topics without much n00b interjection. Novices stayed away, largely 'cause they didn't know how to get there. Nowadays, anyone can get on the net, and there are some folks who are still bent about it. I personally don't want to invade their world, and then tell them how they should treat me.

Flames aren't necessary most of the time. But, it's their country club, and if they wanna crap on someone wearing a t-shirt, that's what they're gonna do. They are at least cool enough to warn you ahead of time to expect to be flamed.

And considering what we get in return (namely ShowEQ) it's worth it to play by their rules.

It's not my world, I just live here. \\=^ )

[cbreaker]

Originally posted by Lyroschen

Just because someone's not knowledgable doesn't make them deserve poor treatment, they just become a target in an intolerant world.


It never ceases to amaze me how some people Just Don't Get It.

People aren't flamed for being less knowledgable.

People are flamed for not reading the warning above the message board. People are flamed for not searching for information that is readily available. People are flamed for asking the same shit, over and over and over again.

It's not a question of being a novice. It's a question of being a useless tard that can't perform a simple search nor browse around for the answers BEFORE posting a new message and starting this shit all over again.

Can't you understand this?

[TDES]

Is SEQ fixed yet ? How do I know when SEQ has been updated ?

Here's a tip for the less than patient amoung us.

Right near that infamous "search" button is the Patches section and the CVS directory. Both are great places to check (in addition to the anouncement forum)

Patches (click here) (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=310131&group_id=10131&func=browse)

CVS Directory (note file modification dates) (http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/seq/showeq/)

[Lyroschen]

CB,

Please re-read my post. I do get it. I've been a techy for a long time, and I've never asked such questions in these boards 'cause I do use the search, and I do watch the Patches and CVS folders, I do have a sense of the community here, and I do have a modicum of common sense.

What you may not get is that flaming someone (outside of the micro-computing world) is viewed as the immature and even ignorant response to an unwanted presence: "What!? You freaking moron, can't you see we're out of cheese?! Check next time before you ask! NO YOU CAN"T HAVE A DAMN CHEESEBURGER." So, the rules online are different, and the expectations of some folks are different as well.

My post was made to express that in coming to an internet community such as this forum; ignorance of the rules, naivety about board protocol, and failing to take the time it requires to learn how to get the answers yourself are all frowned upon. This isn't the information desk at the mall. Here, we expect you to have checked the directory, looked around a bit, see what some of the stores have to offer, and then, if you still can't find what you're looking for, it's okay to ask. Anyone who's unknowledgeable about the expectations of a technical discussion board will be like t-shirt clad dolts wandering around a country club. Some folks won't mind. Some folks will grimace. Some will turn up their noses. And still others will cast disparaging remarks. To the uninitiated, their requests will seem harmless, and hardly worth being flamed over. There's a difference of expectation. And since they're the outsider, it falls on them to learn and follow the rules, no doubt.

Do flames accomplish this? Perhaps. Most likely they do more for boosting the flamer's ego: "Come along muffy, this filth isn't worth our presence."

My hope would be that in a world as fascinating and confusing to many of the masses as the Internet is, we could recognize the uninitiated and retort with "It's still down. Checking CVS and Patches will prevent you from ever having to ask again". Heck, we could even macro it. <grin>

TDES did almost exactly that!

In a perfect world... but, alas, it's not my world. I just live here.

And to the folks who'd come to this country club, the dress code is all about finding the answers yourself, if you can, and then asking, only after you've put in the effort expected here.

[lane]

What you may not get is that flaming someone (outside of the micro-computing world) is viewed as the immature and even ignorant response to an unwanted presence:


and because this is a totally anonymous world people can be ass holes and not have any accountability. It's a hell of a lot harder to call someone a moron when you are looking them in the face than it is to write "use the search button you idiot" on this board.

I really don't understand how some people on here continually write message back to people saying "use the search button". Why the hell do they even write it? Do they get some meger gratification from it? They don't add any value, and waist both thier own time and others be perpetuating a question thread that has already been answered.

There would be a lot less junk threads on the board if everyone would just ignore the questions that can be easily found by searching. Not that anyone would ever do that because they are far to busy writing replys to stupid questions.

-Lane

[eggman]

"I really don't understand how some people on here continually write message back to people saying "use the search button". Why the hell do they even write it?"

Well for one, it increases the value in their "posts:" field. A higher number in that field then allows them to cite that value as a measure of their importance to the community as well as demonstrate how long they've been around. I've seen this done on a few occasions.

Personally I apply the same philosophy here as I do to usenet. If I start a thread, I do my best to maintain it untill it is no longer active. If I see a troll or pointless thread, I don't reply to it ( with the occasional exception ).

In end, if seeing people add to the pointlessness of pointless threads by regurgitating that which is already posted on the main index ( use search, the current offset, etc etc) bothers you, I recomend just not reading the thread. Peoples ego's and attitudes are a force that you will never overcome. Starting a new thread with the request that people show some understanding towards one another is futile. People will always be assholes and others will always be idiots, that's not ever going to change. While I commend your effort at trying to make your point clear, I have to say that your energies would be better spent watching paint peel.

Cheers,
-Egg

[lane]

We might have just made a possitive impact. :)


http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2902

-Lane

[S_B_R]

Originally posted by lane
I really don't understand how some people on here continually write message back to people saying "use the search button". Why the hell do they even write it? Do they get some meger gratification from it? They don't add any value, and waist both thier own time and others be perpetuating a question thread that has already been answered.

-Lane

The reason Most do it is so the original poster will actually search for the answer. Hopefully that will cause the original poster to actually learn something. Finally it should keep the original poster from bumping their own thread over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.......... Generally just posting "Use the Search Function" does actually work most of the time, without the flames.

I think many of the newer folks here really never got to see how things used to be before the warning message got put on the main page. We'd have 4 or 5 different variations of the same question in every forum. It may look that way now but back then it was EVERY SINGLE question was asked multiple times.

Us *old-timers* got extremely fed up with it and pretty much every patient nerve in our bodies burned up. We asked for the Warning to be put up on the front page, and things improved dramatically.

Every time SEQ is inoperable for an extended length of time these type of posts come back. Especially when the GPS function is broken. It brings people out of the wood work, all asking pretty much the same question "Is ShowEQ Working yet?" that leads to the flame fest that we've had here for the last few days.

Everyone needs to take a step back and look at what has been the source of the major flames the last few days. Notice it's mostly a result of SEQ being in a non-functioning state.

[spiceman]

Tides
That was a very good post imho

[raksul]

Now I'm not a large poster here myself. I think most everyone has the same feeling. It really comes down to the old saying of "RTFM". If you can't do that, then leave me be.


RTFM is not having to say you are sorry. RTFM is a big chromatic dragon with bloodshot beady eyes and fangs the size of oars. RTFM is me screaming at you as fireballs come out of my mouth to get off your precious no-good tush, march down to the local bookstore or MAN page repository, and get the eff off my back because I'm trying very hard to get some freakin' work done. Jeez.

It's not being rude. It's just saying that the text was there for you to begin with. If you want to learn, read the text. Otherwise expect the famous four letters to be pumelled into your skull until you are bleeding from your eyes.

It's been my understanding for the short time that i've read these forums that informations is always posted. If you have questions and can't find it in one forum, try another. I always figured that the help desk would have the latest updates for SEQ and what happened. seems to be that the Key Sniffer portion has most of the information i need.

However, if you DO find something interesting that you can find nothin' on ... or if you have some intracate problem w/ a flavour of linux, then by all means post away! This is a community ... we are here for eachother. We are not a technical support line and we don't want to answer the same question over and over again. "yes sir / madam, reboot your computer".

All anyone is asking is to do some research before you post. It will make all our lives easier.

:D

-Raksul

[immortalsam]

What you may not get is that flaming someone (outside of the micro-computing world) is viewed as the immature and even ignorant response to an unwanted presence: "What!? You freaking moron, can't you see we're out of cheese?! Check next time before you ask! NO YOU CAN"T HAVE A DAMN CHEESEBURGER." So, the rules online are different, and the expectations of some folks are different as well.

Well, my 2 cp on this is thus.. you walk into a burger joint, they have a computerized terminal where you can find out what is available, and a large sign up above that says if you ask for something that is listed on the menu as not available, the order takers may yell at you for being too stupid to read a stupid menu.
so you go up to the help and ask for a cheeseburger anyway, even though if you had bothered to check the terminal, you would of found that cheese was not available.

its all a matter of perspective. IF your told to do something, and given the tools to do it, and told where to find it, and you are too f****ing lazy to use it, then you truely deserve to be flamed.

Im a linux newb. my first install of linux was for seq. I used the search button, i used the VERY informative and helpful walkthroughs provided by the various members of this community. IF you need to ask a inteligent question, well thought out, and did search on the various questions you are asking first, you wont get flamed. Recently i upgraded to Libranet, which it seems no one else here uses, but its based off of debian. After i searched for the problem i was having, i asked for help, and within 24 hours Casey (the debian god.. /wink) had replied with a answer.
Really and truely, ALL questions about almost every distro or variant of a distro has been answered. If a new question pops up, it is answered, not flamed. but if the answer already exists and you search and the answer lies within the first 5 - 7 posts that search hits, and you ask anyways, your just asking for the flamebots (sorry, had to make up some term for em.. grin) to get busy.

[casey]

YAY FOR BUMPING 3 MONTH OLD POSTS

[Lyroschen]

Sorry, Casey, I linked that thread when they started up a new thread about flaming vs not flaming. Didn't expect someone to bump it.