Sony has won

[third_party]

So, despite all the protestations that the seq developers are superior, it seems that Sony has won. ShowEQ is dead and beaten.

There are two alternatives at this point:
1) The current sony code is too hard for the showeq developers to figure out, and have given up.
2) The current sony code has been figured out, but none of the seq developers wants to release it and announce that they've done it, in fear that Sony will just change it again and break them.

So, if its alternative 2, and they've got it all figured out, they (the inner circle of showeq developers) have got showeq working for themselves, and they're going to keep it, just for themselves. Regardless of whether they're hoarding it or not, the result is the same, Sony has won, and all of you dont have it.

[Grae1]

Tad bitchy aren't we?

Yeah, I wish SEQ was up and runnin, but really.. It seems like its a major pain this time around to get it working..


so.. since the devs here do this for FREE. And let you use it for FREE, why ya bitchin?

[Dedpoet]

I see many flames in your future.

ShowEQ is not dead. The developers have most everything figured out and are just waiting on the network code to stabilize before putting out a fix. It's not dead and beaten, it's just resting.

[a_necro00]

yes dude, SOE won, please stop trying to use SEQ, telling anyone that SEQ exists and most important, stop visiting this forums.

[uncleubb]

RRRRRR

-uu

[Hendrix_Morton]

It's people like you what cause unrest...

Chill....When its ready, its ready....bitch'n and moan'n aint gonna make it happen sooner...there are some very intelligent devs workin on this, and they will release it when they think its done...Not to hush up whiners like you.

>HM<

[mantra71]

I think this post as most others are just a futile attempt to get some official comment from the SEQ developers.

It's almost impossible to ask a question in any of the forums except the map one, which is still civil. Even the IRC channel has in topic, ask about the project and get banned.

I personally come visit this page atleast once per day and the question I have before I even loaded the page is: Is showeq fixed.

What the forum really lacks now is some 'proof of life' from the developer side, and also quality discussion about functionality.

I don't bother post questions anymore cause someone is just going to be a dick about it.

[Velium_hound]

Heh, it's just a game, and last I checked, the purpose of a game is to have fun. If you can't have fun without SEQ, then stop playing and go back to farming chickens in Dungeon Seige.

[GregChant]

I promised myself I would just stick to my topic, but I just liked to say...

Dungeon Siege > *.

[GregChant]

And, as one of the IRC operators, the reason we have that in the topic is to prevent the hooligans who come in, ask "R SHOEWEDQ RIXED YET?!?!? HOW CMOE?!?! I WNAT SHEOQ!!! UR LAME!!!1"

Additionally, it says in the topic, "ShowEQ is broken."

Read the fscking topic. All of it.

/rant

[quackrabbit]

third_party
Posts: 1Go Away troll.

[baelang]

Yep, you are correct. sony won. It is far too hard for us to figure out. oh well. time (for you) to switch to DAoC. or something.

[Dedpoet]

I promise this is the one and only time I will post about this topic:


I don't bother post questions anymore cause someone is just going to be a dick about it.

I don't understand why people continue to say this. This is only true about questions that have been covered before, not valid, well-written questions. I spent 5 minutes and came up with all of these threads that were in the help forum where a question was answered. All of these were in the first 2 pages of the 30-day active topic list.

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2847

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2830

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2823

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2824

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2811

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2807

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2801

People here are more than willing to help those who just take a few minutes and read 2 documents (INSTALL.newbies and the FAQ) and try a search first.

Ok, I promise never to post on this issue again.

[Raistlin]

Ah yes, I see fauder for Ratt's Redundantly Redundant Forum.

Move at will Ratt..:)

Lock and Load Ladies and Gentelmen.

[LordCrush]

Rdy ;)

But until then think about ... sense nad nonsense of dooing adaptions on intermediate protocols :P

[tmiss]

third_party
Posts: 1


I'm willing to bet this person has another acct and is just trolling like others have already said. As a showeq user is also a good chance they have a trackable IP.

TMiss

[Necro23]

*chuckle* got a rise out of us anyway ;)

The SEQ-Dead logic = where's the fix? No fix? SEQ dead.

If SEQ were really dead mid-LoY with no hope of a fix, someone would have said so by now. Having watched the devs tackle problem after problem, some almost certainly thornier than this one, my confidence remains high.

Keeping it for themselves? *guffaw* *chortle*

Having no knowledge of what is going on in SEQ dev-space,
the lack of a LoY fix is related to the number of features SOE
is pushing out with LoY. If you look at what those features
are, a lot of game data format is going to have to change, and new data is going to be bolted on before the end of February.
It's already been noted elsewhere that the current changes have caused game problems - with so much coming in LoY, it'll be a bit before things stabilize, as Dedpoet mentioned. I don't see any advantage, other than SEQ user convenience, to pushing out a SEQ fix now. I made it to 50 before SEQ appeared, and I'm having no issues while SEQ is in user hiatus. I'd rather the devs get it all in one gulp (fix) rather than patch patch patch and drive themselves nuts in the process. They are doing us the favor - it isn't the other way 'round.

I'm a coder myself, but not in the same league as these guys, so I really can appreciate their level of effort and skill on our behalf.
Even if it turns out SEQ can't be adapted to a post-LoY world, my regard for them and what they have accomplished will not change.

Necro23

[Raistlin]

Originally posted by Necro23
*chuckle* got a rise out of us anyway ;)
They are doing us the favor - it isn't the other way 'round.
Necro23

/hijack

Someone explain to me why it is that people think "if I use this program, it's the programmer's responsibility to make it work for me when I want it."

For those who seem to feel that way, SEQ isn't SONY. You didn't pay them for this program, they have no obligation to you or anyone else to "make it work."

The initial post in this thread is an obvious troll, but there are quite a few annoyed people out there that feel some of the same things that were initially posted...

God, it's the sense of entitlement that the human race (maybe just the US) has developed over the last 20 years that will be our downfall. Clue bus has arrived people, you are entitled to nothing that you can't do yourself. Period. And in this life, sometimes you arn't even entitled to that.

Thank the devs, read the boards, and if the announcements section doesn't say "Seq has been updated to fix..." post your thanks or join in some of the excelent technical discussions on this board...but over all, and to put it bluntly, STFU and quit bothering the people who are undoubtedly working to fix the problems...or are sitting on their chairs at home with their wives and kids...or are drinking at the local pub with their friends.

Afterall, I think they're "entitled" to that, don't you?

/hijack off

[Burnereq]

I figure im just like every other NoN Dev out there.. I Sit quietly.. I troll the boards.. praying to see the ShowEQ Annoucements Date change. Until that happens.. no amount of bitching, whining, crying, complaining or just plain and simple being a pain in the ass.. is going to help the cause..

So Third_Party... SYH

SYH=Shut Your Hole.

[eqhunter]

LOL

I love you guys... no matter how bad it gets at work I can come here and get a good laugh... BTW Im in no rush for the fix.. I enjoyed playing the game before SEQ.. I had fun with SEQ and I have had fun with EQ after seq...

To the troll pin head that started this tread.. go do your homework.. Im glad SEQ is dead. maybe you'll pass 8th grade after all.

To the Dev's... you guys have balls... hope you fix it... if not thats cool... As it was a great ride.

Hunter

[newport]

Personally I don't expect SEQ to be fixed until after the LoY expansion.

What would be the point of doing any work, when its 90% likely that it will be all undone as soon as the expansion is released.

[casey]

Originally posted by third_party
So, despite all the protestations that the seq developers are superior, it seems that Sony has won. ShowEQ is dead and beaten.

There are two alternatives at this point:
1) The current sony code is too hard for the showeq developers to figure out, and have given up.
2) The current sony code has been figured out, but none of the seq developers wants to release it and announce that they've done it, in fear that Sony will just change it again and break them.

So, if its alternative 2, and they've got it all figured out, they (the inner circle of showeq developers) have got showeq working for themselves, and they're going to keep it, just for themselves. Regardless of whether they're hoarding it or not, the result is the same, Sony has won, and all of you dont have it.

PLONK!

stop feeding the trolls guys, this wasnt even a good one.

[vexor]

After reading this thread I finally decided it was time to register, donate and reply: Alternative number 3.
edit: hey, where's my penguin )

[cryptorad]

.. the fact is the Dev's here are more professional then the ones at Sony. And therefore; they won't subject THEIR customer base (a non paying customer base at that) to multiple patches day after day trying to stabilize the ShowEQ product. Since this product actually requires some WORK from it's customer base to bring the product online, in contrast to the mindless 'click here' button you get in EQ patching, that is a most kind and thoughtful process. One which seems to go largely unrecognized and unappreciated by the masses I might add.

Sony patches week after week and day after day without a thought. Since it doesn't USUALLY take the servers down outright.. 99 percent of Sony's customers don't even notice. But trust me.. for some of us, that rapid fire patching is horrible. Wasting hours and DAYS of time and in game preparation. I suppose level18 trolls, like you, didn't notice. But I sure did since most Sony EQ patches effect the leading edge.. and that's where I like to play.

Since there is SOO much changing, so rapidly at this time, it only makes sense to put it all together and release ShowEQ with all changes built in at one time. Instead of the bits and pieces rapid fire release that Sony seems to have trained you into feeling is the 'correct' way to do things.

On a final note, it is worth noticing that Sony doesn't rapid fire change their encryption or netcode on the fly. So rapid fire changes on Sony's end is unreasonable to expect, thus; when ShowEQ is operating, it tends to stay operating for a long time. They just don't have that level of programming committment to breaking ShowEQ that constant netcode changing requires (and might not be able to if they did. ;) ). But they WILL corrupt your game play experience in an effort to 'defeat' ShowEQ.


Don't go away mad, just.. wait... on second thought, yeah... go away mad.

[Resiliant]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. SEQ is *more* reliable, better written, and more stable code than EQ. What we are seeing here reveals this in stark contrast. SoE has taken *another* of their wandering detours into untested, unworkable, poorly written code, and what we are seeing, simply, is our excellent dev's unwillingness to follow them into the quagmire, knowing that in short order, they will emerge, and come back onto firm ground.

If you want someone to blame, BLAME SONY. The reason we are here is NOT because of SEQ's devs. Its because of SONY's devs.

R

[Jillian]

Originally posted by third_party
the inner circle of showeq developers have got showeq working for themselves, and they're going to keep it, just for themselves. Regardless of whether they're hoarding it or not, the result is the same, Sony has won, and all of you dont have it.
LOL! so it's not bad enough that Sony is conspiring against us but now the SEQ developers as well! Best laugh I've had in a while. Thanks.

[Dedpoet]

I think judging by the threads that Ratt and Casey have started and posted in over the last couple of weeks, we can determine the above to be utterly false. :-)

[DanoStu]

One thing I noticed with the recent SEQ hiatus is that I don't look back and forth as much from screen to screen anymore. It took me awhile to break that habit, it's like taking your watch off but still looking at your wrist every 5 minutes :).

If there is one thing that I got from SEQ, it's a great mental image of the zones that I frequent, and I can get around a lot better now than I ever could before the SEQ days. I remember getting lost in sro one time because I couldn't remember what corner the swamp zone was in!

I'm still directionally challenged, though, and I do miss my GPS. I'm gonna give that EQ Companion a whirl when I get home. It looks like that can hold me over.

Anyway, I'll be standing and cheering when SEQ comes back. I think the devs have done a great job with it thus far, and this is a good opportunity for us to get back to the game like it was on the old days. Might as well enjoy it if ya can.

[RetroTZ]

This makes me laugh. The day those morons at SOE can beat the SEQ dev team is the day I eat my hat. I am sure the team has waded through most of the changes and are either testing those changes, or as people have said, are waiting for a stabilization of the network code.

Just be patient and grateful that SEQ ever worked at all. So much work into this and they did not have to share it. Imagine if the devs just said FU you ungrateful fucks, we will be the only ones with SEQ, and they would have every right to.

PS. Yeah those of you who are geographically challenged (like me), can get EQ Companion. You have to train the maps and then spam /loc to show up on the map, but other those small annoyances it works very well. Its also a fantastic parser, and as far as I know, totally ok to use.

http://home.inreach.com/kai/EQCompanion/

[cattj]

As for being geographically challenged... SEQ as a GPS becomes obsolete as soon as the cartography system is released. In game maps will become much more convienent. Set the alpha to like 10 and you'll have a nice overlay... without having to spam /loc everytime you want an update.


time to start working on a SEQ map to EQ map conversion program... hmm maybe I will start that..

[Burnereq]

From what info has been released, the map system will consist of a window in the UI, that shows you current zone. Will not show you your location in the zone.

Guess we will know for sure on Friday,

[cattj]

that info is wrong... it shows you exactly where you are on the map... and updates it in real time

[third_party]

Ranting wont change the facts.

The fact is that ShowEq has been broken for about a month, and the recent changes in the eq network code were just a deliberate obfuscation intended entirely to mess with ShowEq.
Waiting for stable network code is a futile endeavour, Sony doesnt have to ever "stabilize" the network code, they can change it whenever they want.

The truth is, it doesnt matter how much smarter the ShowEq developers are than Sony's. If Sony decides to care, and its apparent they have, they can change the network protocol every day and patch every day.
Its very little work for them to change things, to make a lot of more work for ShowEq to reverse engineer it again. They (Sony) can simply tire them (ShowEq) out.
They can easily have a new version of the network code ready for rollout, and just wait for ShowEq to announce that they have the current version fixed. Boom, patch next day.
Yes Sony has shoddy QA, if they screw it up they'll just patch again tomorrow, as long as people keep paying its not an issue to them.
I assume the showeq devs are smart enough to realize this, and want to stay under the radar in the hope that Sony decides to not bother messing with them.

Why has Sony decided to care? Probably because they want to sell you expansions. ShowEq has something that people want (probably the big one is the map), and they figure that people will pay for it. Why let you have it for free if they can get you to pay for it?

[Dedpoet]

I just can't see them patching every day just to thwart Seq. I am not in a big raid guild, so I only know what I read, but it seems to me that if they patched every day, or even every couple of days, the mobs with ~1week spawn times would never spawn. The mobs that are up at or soon after server reset would be up every time there was a patch. High end loot would flow into the game at an alarming rate, etc. etc.

We have all seen how much SoE caters to the high end players. Hell, mid-level monks have been useless for months and all we have gotten is a mention on the developer site that they know they screwed up and are "taking a look at it." At least those evil Seq users can't tell what level the mobs are or tell where they are in the zone! Thank God! </sarcasm>

[cybris]

Just a flat out geuss here, but I believe maybe the devs are waiting til LOY comes out to release a working version of Seq.

Because until then Sony will be releaseing a ton of patches seems like they patch at least once a week in not a couple of times sometimes now.

Anyone one of these patches can fubar the packet stream that EQ uses. Therefore this makes devs have to start all over again on decoding the packets.

My geuss is wait til LoY goes live then I bet you'll see a working ver of SEQ again :)

[XYZPDQ]

Sony doesn't need to patch every day. Turns out they only need to patch, oh, about once a month to scare the seq devs away.

>Anyone one of these patches can fubar the packet stream that EQ uses. Therefore this makes devs have to start all over again on decoding the packets.

Exactly...

If the seq devs really have a working copy of seq there's no reason not to release it, other than fear Sony will change the packet stream and force them to start all over again.

Face it, 95% of seq users were script kiddies who could not write seq if they had to. Some could, most could not. (btw, installing and compiling someone elses code does not mean you could have written that code. Don't kid yourselves.)

Sony wins.

[CybMax]

As i have said several times, it all boils down to 2 options :

1. Sony does not really care that they mess with seq, cos they are conserned about getting the best netcode to make players be able to play (and some of the feedbacks indeed indicate that packet traffic is a lot less in bigger raids with the new code). If sony happens to mess up SEQ, its just a bonus.

2. Sony is developing new ways to quick change network code to keep seq from working. If they happen to optimize the network traffic in the process of "breaking seq" this is considered a bonus.

Personally i dont believe #2 is it tho..

But.. Anyway it seems Sony did win.. Cos they have broken seq, and no devs wanna give out the new code cos they recon sony will turn and mess the packets up again.. Thus Sony have effectively prevented SEQ from working.

[LordCrush]

I am getting a little angry about this thread...

Buhuhu the devs dont have fixed it before the patch was out and they havent fixed it until now - bad devs !!

Buhuhu the devs have perhaps something that works that they won't give out - if they decide to do ok ... i would choose that too until the situation gets a little more stable again ...

Buhuhu Sony can change the protocol as often they want ...

ROFL sure they can, but that is one of the most important parts of EQ and change that only to kill SEQ ... i think you take yourself a little too important. (The chance of bulilding bugs into the network layer vs the ROI of breaking SEQ again and again)

my 2cp only

Now you can wine on but stop picking on the dev people !

Btw feel free to flame on me :D

[CybMax]

Buhuhu the devs dont have fixed it before the patch was out and they havent fixed it until now - bad devs !!

Noone have asked the devs to have a working code BEFORE the patch! That would perhaps been kindof an "insider" job to have that i'd recon.. And.. what do you mean by fixed "until now"? Should have been "havent fixed it yet"..


i would choose that too until the situation gets a little more stable again ...

Uhm? If they HAVE a working code NOW, the only reason not to give it out would be that they think IF they do, sony will change the code to break SEQ. IF the code is working, that would be the ONLY reason.


and change that only to kill SEQ ... i think you take yourself a little too important

Excactly what i been saying all along.. and see my coment above.

Any devs have a quick reassurement in the lines of either "We have 123 puzzles of a 1000000 piece puzzle solved now" or "We are optimizing the code and checking a couple of minor bugs before we release" to give?

[cryptorad]

Cybmax...



By your own rational, staying here and complaining makes you a no action whiner. If you really believe what you are saying.. you will leave and not come back.

And neither of your two options above are correct. All you have to do is read the forums to find out more then what you post here.


Who wants to bet he continues to post?? ;)

[chud]

I read only the last page of this thread and as suspected, I'm completely disgusted with the attitudes and intelligence of many.

If you're going to sit around speculating what the devs or Sony are doing, at least make it interesting. Your in depth guesses about what Sony's agenda toward SEQ is not impressive or even vaguely stimulating.

If I was a Dev, I'd be half tempted to give the finger to all you impatient bastards.

Oh and calling SEQ users script kiddies is pointless. Yes, many SEQ users can't follow a detailed installation procedure. Big deal. Does that make them lazy? Do you never buy or use anything that someone else made? I for one don't want to go out and hunt my dinner each night. I definitely have no desire to spend many many months coding SEQ when there is already a fine dev group.

SEQ dev is pretty advanced stuff folks. C++, network protocols, reverse engineering, encryption, compression, brute force stuff... it doesn't get too much more challenging than that folks. Heck I think it is challenging just to look at someone else's source code and understand their way of thinking.

[LordCrush]

CybMax :
Noone have asked the devs to have a working code BEFORE the patch! That would perhaps been kindof an "insider" job to have that i'd recon.. And.. what do you mean by fixed "until now"? Should have been "havent fixed it yet"..

1.) its been on the testserver before ... no insider :p
2.) thnx for education in english 8) ... lets discuss in german :D



CybMax :
Uhm? If they HAVE a working code NOW, the only reason not to give it out would be that they think IF they do, sony will change the code to break SEQ. IF the code is working, that would be the ONLY reason.

Have you ever done anything of coding that is related to another product ? ... You won´t release anything before the referenced application gets to some stability (without important reason, of course)

[Raistlin]

You honestly have faith in Sony enough to think that the cartography system will be anything CLOSE to SEQ?

Are you serious? What HAVE you been smoking?

After years of piss poor planning, constant patches, constant broken quests and characters, and out of wack players and classes you still have enough faith in Sony to make cartography something as useable as SEQ is?

More power to you bud. Me? I think that Cartography will turn out as follows (Details posted tomorrow If i remember correctly so please feel free to flame me on this tomorrow if i'm way off base):

A small overlay map will appear on the screen. It will have just about as many details as the EQ Atlas did (i.e. None), there will be a cartography skill check (starting at 1, raising to 200) which when maxed will have about a 60 to 70% chance to show your possition correctly on the map assuming you click the skill (sort of like sense heading right now). The map will be large enough that on smaller screens (800x600 and smaller) it will be practically unuseable (too large) or on larger screens (1280 x 1024 and larger) it will be unuseable (too small). To begin with the maps will have problems changing with zone (or you may actually have to manually load the maps). At worst, you're going to actually have to BUY the maps, and I wouldn't put it past them to have them mob dropped (like spells) and that you have to either scribe them to your cartography book/map shieth (think Keys/spellbook at best or item in inventory at worst), or have to keep the scrolls on your person.

*LAUGH* I just had a thought. Wouldn't it be funny if Sony's implimentation of Cartography was to display your current loc in another small window like the the compass window and leave it at that? *grin*

We'll see tomorrow, but I guarentee that SEQ will still have a place (even the GPS Version) after the 24th. My faith in proper development of Cartography by Sony is pretty akin to my faith that the sun will not come up tomorrow...it's almost certain to be wrong.

[Raistlin]

XYZPDQ and Third_Party are the same guy (this is pretty obvious, try hiding your writing style)

My Jury is still out on CybMax, i'm going to guess he's probably not the same person as Third_Party, but probably a good friend.

My jury is still out on whether these guys are SoE employees or not also, i'm leaning toward yeppers...any opinions?

:p

[LordCrush]

From what i have read until now the functionality will be the like eqcompanion with own map-format and in realtime - without need to press loc to update and it shows the direction where you are looking ...

[Dedpoet]

My jury is still out on whether these guys are SoE employees or not also, i'm leaning toward yeppers...any opinions?

XYZPDQ and third_party could be, but I doubt it on cybmax. I'm just judging by post content and writing style. If you were Sony, would you hire someone who writes like this?


Noone have asked the devs to have a working code BEFORE the patch! That would perhaps been kindof an "insider" job to have that i'd recon

[LordCrush]

I'm just judging by post content and writing style. If you were Sony, would you hire someone who writes like this?

LOL /nod /nod

[XYZPDQ]

>XYZPDQ and Third_Party are the same guy (this is pretty obvious, try hiding your writing style)

nope...

>My jury is still out on whether these guys are SoE employees or not also, i'm leaning toward yeppers...any opinions?

Because only Sony employees would believe that Sony has the upper hand. :rolleyes: After all, the only advantage Sony has is the source code, and the ability to change it whenever they want. The seq community has smart devs that are willing to spend days figuring it out again (for now).

[BluesClues]

Ive played since june of the first year. I cancelled my acct today. 2 lvl 65 chars and a lvl 62 char(plus a crap load of 20-30plus).

Thanks to the devs for the great app and all the work they did. SEQ was the only thing that kept my interest in this game for the last year.

Thanks all that contributed code and IT support for us linux n00bs.

[unknowing]

sony only has the upper hand until enough people get tired of the bad
programming and file a class action
law suite for lack of downtime that
sony has been doing to their customers.
Just because they have to add patches
some of this is done in response to seq
and as such can be viewed as violation
of the agreement by Sony itself. loss of
access for a problem is one thing but
loss of access to disrupt a 3rd party
program must be reimbursed by Sony
to all customers for the lost of time. Until
someone gets ticked off enough to do it
though they do have the upper hand. But
loss of thousands or even millions of dollars for back refund for down time would hurt Sony very much. But like
others i have stopped playing EQ until
this is either fixed and may even cancel my account which number more than 4
as i can always restart them or not since
EQ 2 will be out soon enough. I do find
it hard to believe that someone has not already fixed this issue but i can expect
that it is a waste until after the latest extension comes out. I would think that
since the changes happen to the test server way before live that the developers already know what is about to happen. I hope so anyway. Just my
.02 cents on the subject.

[Amadeus]

I just wonder why they care so much about 3rd party software. I mean, has the atmosphere, playing style, or economy SERVER-WIDE changed since SEQ has been broken the past few weeks?

It's a pride thing most likely ....it's their money I guess considering *IF* seq ever gave up, will be a lot of accounts cancelled with really no change in the game for 95% of players.

"Yes, let's go burn some money becuase we don't like folks using 3rd party software with EQ" ....that's about what it translates into.

[CybMax]

Who wants to bet he continues to post??

Doh.. you won :)


My Jury is still out on CybMax, i'm going to guess he's probably not the same person as Third_Party, but probably a good friend.

I am not, nor do i know him or any of the posters on this board at all. If i know anyone here, i sure don't know who it would be tho :confused:


1.) its been on the testserver before ... no insider

Doh.. sorry LordCrush .. I did not think about that.. Disregard my previous comment on that issue then. :o

Well.. Sorry to have caused any problems due to my constant rambling and whining on these boards. I just have to comment on the people that believes "If the devs release a working code now, sony will just break it again".

/em makes a mental note to himself.. "Patience"

[hackordie]

I have been lurking on this board for a couple of years now. After seeing this thread I felt like this was an interesting enough topic to jump in on.

1st - This reply from 'unknowing'?
"Just because they have to add patches
some of this is done in response to seq
and as such can be viewed as violation
of the agreement by Sony itself. loss of
access for a problem is one thing but
loss of access to disrupt a 3rd party
program must be reimbursed by Sony
to all customers for the lost of time. Until
someone gets ticked off enough to do it
though they do have the upper hand. "

What kind of entitlement bullshit is that? Dude, go back and read the end user license that you agree to before you play each time. This company is under zero obligation to allow their game to function with any other software other than the OS and drivers (this is for practical reasons). i.e. No worky == no money on Sony's part. Other than that, they are free to change THEIR code anytmie they please. And who is to say that they are doing this to screw with showEQ. That's just conjecture. Either way, head back out in the parking lot for another hit of crack if you think that reply has any validity.

My argument has always been this;
When cheats exist that affect a large body of users regarding a game system, most game companies will try to do something about it. If they make it time consumig and painful for the devs who are putting together the cheats, sooner or later the cheat devs will stop making the cheats public.

If the cheats are not public for the game company to examine, then chances are, the game company won't realize that a few folks are cheating as apposed to a large number using well known cheats. For that matter, unless the cheating is affecting the larger player community, at this point they may not care. example 10 people cheating versus 5000 people cheating.

It's pretty easy to fly under the radar with a small number of folks when the user base is well over 400k. It's harder when the number is large and the cheating is essentially being thrown ni the face of the gamig company.

One interesting thing I see is that in some cases the features in showEQ should legitimately be in the game itself. The fact that EQ is adding some level of player mapping just shows that some of the feature set in ShowEQ has helped to reinforce with Sony what people need. Though I am sure that a ton of people have requested this as well.

My 2 cents? If I were the ShowEQ devs and was getting tired of all the BS changes to the packet structures and network pieces, I would quitly bide my time and enjoy MY version of the working ShowEQ.

See you all in game:
HackorDie

[Joolz]

Interesting that you guys continue to bitch about who has won. The same thing happened with the Counter-Strike cheating community. People thought that Valve had one when they produced VAC. What total trash. Just because Valve controlled VAC, the cheat developers STILL won by the fact that anything can be reverse engineered with a bit of effort. The people that keep moaning that its died, they are the people that are just crap at EQ without SEQ. That's what it boils down to. They're bitching because they've now been unable to play EQ for nearly a month. Those who are just patiently waiting, they are the people that use SEQ ethically and know that changes take time.

[bubbahlicious]

Sony hasn't won:
http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2993

[Mr Guy]

Mvern wins, or we all do, I guess.