OT: Linux Certs

[don'tdoit]

Ok,

First, I realize this probably isn't the best place to ask this question, but it's where I hang out and I respect some of the opinions around here.

That said, I would like to know which certification for Linux would be the most recommended by some of you. So far I've been looking at Linux+ and RHCE, leaning toward the latter.

It was the "Windows not ready..." (http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2961) thread that got me thinking about going for a Linux cert (actually I thought about it before, but this pushed me to take action). I'm already an MCSE, but want a Linux cert to show that side of my abilities on my resume/card.

So, fire away...

[bonkersbobcat]

When I put on my "hiring hat" I don't pay much attention to certifications. I have interviewed too many people who have "paper MCSEs", meaning that they passed the tests to get certification but they don't really know how to apply any knowledge they have.

What matters to me is what systems a candidate has developed and how well they understand how all the pieces of a computing system work together. My line of questioning is trying to determine "Do they get it?"

When I interview people that have a lot of certifications, I ask them probing questions like "What aspects of your MCSE certification reflect reality of knowledge needed to work in a Microsoft environment?" and "What do you feel that the MSCE certification process does not adequately test?" If the candidate cannot indicate to me the differences between the specific certification and reality in the real world, they don't get considered.

[high_jeeves]

Yeah, I agree with bonkers... I consider certifications to be pretty meaningless... Being certified in something is much less useful than actually being able to do it. I find that the set of people who are certified, and the set of people that excel at actually working with the systems dont have a very large intersection set...

So, all I'm saying is, if you are gonna get a cert, make sure you can actually do all parts in the courseware, otherwise you could end up as one of those resumes that gets passed around the office as a joke :D

--Jeeves

[don'tdoit]

Yeah, I know what you guys are saying. I'm sure we all know at least a few paper MCSE's (and other certs). I usually sit on the technical interview panel for people applying to work on my team of administrators (as i said before, W2K/NT4/Novell mostly), and do similar things to weed out the useless ones.

What I'm after, is the same thing in the Linux world that I went after my MCSE for. I had/have all the knowledge and more about W2K/NT4 systems that I'll ever need, but had no way to prove it other than what I said on my resume and during interviews. The problem was though, that since I don't have a college degree (not likely that I will get one either) and didn't have any certs my resume was most often passed over for ignorant college grads or paper certs, neither of which had any real world knowledge about running those systems.

I went out and got my MCSE with no training other than what I knew for working with the systems, and reading some books to round out what I already knew. I got cert'd in 1998, and upgraded to W2K a year or so ago.

This is why I would like a Linux cert of some type. I will admit, I do need to learn quite a bit more about Linux than I did about W2K/NT4 when I started for the MCSE. But I feel that compelling myself to go after a cert will solidify my knowledge of Linux.

Nobody can tell the future, but I certainly will admit (and look forward to) that Linux will play a bigger and bigger role soon. I want to be ready now; I want to be flexible enough that I can support/design/implement whatever I am asked to.

Besides, looking at the RHCE exam at least, it would be extremely hard for somebody to get a paper RHCE with the way the exam is set up.

[old_fart]

I am a CCIE. That is one hard cert to get. MCSE was a joke. I did that a few years ago and completed all the testing inside of two weeks. Certs are worthless without some on the job experiance to back em up.

[fryfrog]

I believe the people that make the A+ certification also make a Linux+ certification. I think its a tad harder than the A+, but its a start. I'm also pretty sure that Red Hat offers a certification course, and that it is actually fairly difficult. Our backup admin took the course a few years ago and said he studied every night after classes to make sure he could pass the test, and this is the guy most of us go to for linux questions ;)

Depending on what linux distro your company or the ones you would apply to, the Red Hat cert may or may not be almost meaning less. the Linux+ cert is probably more like something that says "yeah, i can get around in linux and know where most of the .conf files are and stuff". not sure of anything more advanced than that.

I'm in the same boat, been in network/it for the past 4-5 years. no college degree and no certs. i got lucky when i was hired basically was recommended by friends who worked there. On the plus side... since Sprint bought the company i worked for (and me) it looks like i will have a great chance at getting TONS of traning ;p

[BlueAdept]

I know what you mean about the MCSE thing. We interviewed one person who got the certificate but has never owned a PC and doesnt even know how to touch type. I dont know how they ever got the the certificate.

[keymaker]

Originally posted by BlueAdept
I know what you mean about the MCSE thing. We interviewed one person who got the certificate but has never owned a PC and doesnt even know how to touch type. I dont know how they ever got the the certificate.

He probably stuck clean sheet of paper to the test preparers head saying give me the cert or I'll paper cut ya. But I see this all the time, had one guy I worked with had all sorts of Certs but kinda fails miserably on the work side. To me that means he can Talk the Talk, but can't Walk the Walk.

[Spook]

On a slight tangent; this thread made me think of certain companies hiring protocol silliness. One I contracted to doesn't care what the degree is in, but you must have at least a Bacehlor's to be hired in as an engineer. It doesn't matter how skilled you are, if you don't have a Bachelor's you can only do work as a contracter.

I shit you not, I did the real work for this one "enigneer" whose thesis she bragged about was on the "Elements of Color and how it effects the Sublimnal Conciousness" because she is .......drum roll..... a psych major working in an electrical engineering position!

/boogle

[high_jeeves]

A degree shows a willingness to stick through ~4 years of boredom for self-improvement. Getting a degree says more about a person that the sum of all their courses.. There is also a great deal you will learn about in school that you just wont learn very well through experience..

The company I work for currently, requires a degree for all technology positions... many companies wont let you move beyond a "junior" or "entry-level" position without a degree.

--Jeeves

[Circles]

Originally posted by Spook
On a slight tangent; this thread made me think of certain companies hiring protocol silliness. One I contracted to doesn't care what the degree is in, but you must have at least a Bacehlor's to be hired in as an engineer. It doesn't matter how skilled you are, if you don't have a Bachelor's you can only do work as a contracter.

I shit you not, I did the real work for this one "enigneer" whose thesis she bragged about was on the "Elements of Color and how it effects the Sublimnal Conciousness" because she is .......drum roll..... a psych major working in an electrical engineering position!

/boogle
Part, well i should say most, of college isnt learning to do a job. its learning to learn a job. When you go to a "tech" school, they teach you to "do" something. when you go to college, for the most part they teach you "about" something.

A good example is the people I work with in AutoCAD. We have a nice mix of College drafters with 15+ years experience, and a handfull of ITT type school grads, with 1-5 years experience.

Those 15+ year people tend to know certian things off teh top of their heads: Drawing layouts, mathmatical fomulas used to find angles, how to measure area with a ruler, etc. In short they know the "basics" and "rules"

the new guys can sometimes tell you why its called A size, or D size drawings. they might even know one or two "basic" sets of drawing requirements. They still ask basic questions even years into the job though. They never learned certian basic parts of engineering and drafting.

So when you have a computer science major, I dont expect him to fix my PC. I do expect him to be able to give you some basic idea of a troubleshooting methodoligy though, and be able to tell you how to do a cost/benifit analisys.

[Lyroschen]

It really depends on the company, and the individual interviewer. Many management types who do the hiring don't actually know the technical details. So, for them, the certificate it a "proof" of sorts that this person isn't full of shit. Of course, that's not always the case, but for the non-technical managers doing an interview for a technical position, it's valuable as a qualifier. In these cases, the best certificate is the one with the buzzwords that apply to the job. If the non-techy manager's computer uses a Windows OS, the MCSE would probably impress more than a Cisco cert. even if your job will deal more with the routers than the workstations.

In other places, the degree requirement merely cuts the playing field. If they didn't set a degree/certificate requirement, they believe EVERYONE would apply, and they'll waste their days interviewing McDonald's rejects who didn't have anything better to do that day.

Lastly, the certification is a point of expectation. If you have a degree or certification, they can set expectations of you based on that. "This is hardly the lack of professionalism I'd expect from a college graduate."

If you already have a target for your expertise, do some research and find out what they want, how much "real world" knowledge vs book knowledge you'll need, and what personality they like/what atmosphere they have. If you're a match for their needs, awesome, go take the job. If not, either become a match, or move on.

If you're just going to "wing it" and do a random job hunt, the less specific certificates will open more doors. In the end, though, all the paperwork just gets you in the door. I don't know anyone that values your credentials once you're hired. After the hire date, only your new accomplishments matter.