ShowEQ for EQOA

[bladezx2]

I was wondering how hard it would be to cross over ShowEQ to work with the PS2 release of EverQuest Online Adventures.

I would also be very interested in a way to monitor the data traffic comming off my PS2 while I play. Does it send a datastream similar to EQ etc.

Any help anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated.

[high_jeeves]

I looked at the datastream a while back, during beta... it is quite different than the EQ data stream (obviously..). I played EQOA for about 2 hrs total before I decided I really didnt like it, so I never went very far into my investigation of the data..


--Jeeves

[bladezx2]

How would I go about monitoring the data stream for my PS2. I have a basic understanding of Linux but nothing too in-depth.

I would be very interested in learning how to do this and to see exactly what is being sent back and forth.

[Cryonic]

Same way you monitor any stream. If you are plugging your PS2 into your network, then just utilize tcpdump, ethereal or any other number of libpcap based apps (or Winpcap based in the case of Windows).

[bladezx2]

Just out of curiosity, what would it take to convert SEQ to work with the EQOA?

[fester]

This question has been asked many times.

The ShowEQ framework is rather large. So 90 percent of the work to make a ShowXYZ is done. The only remaining part is the part to decode the protocol. This will be different for a ShowDAOC, ShowEQOA, ShowShadowbane, ShowSB, ShowL, ShowLineage, ShowAOE, ShowUO, ShowFunnyBunnies.

As a frame of reference, each time the format changed for EQ (Luclin, PoP Encryption, LoY encoded and compress opcodes) the work to get ShowEQ working again is the same work as getting a ShowXYZ working. In other words, to make ShowXYZ, you need to a) break the encryption (look in the client for flaws and/or write a key snifffer), b) decode the "opcodes" (or the format in which the messages are passed).

What it comes down to, is there needs to be someone dedicated to spending from 8 to 40 hours working on a solution to map out the format of the communication.

If a ShowXYZ does not exist, it is because no one wanted to spend this time, no one had the patience to complete it, or the ones who did make it have never released it.

Asking about it with the hope that it has not been mentioned here before is like winning the lottery. If it exists, you would be able to search for it and find it.

http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=594&highlight=daoc
http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2210&highlight=ShowSB
http://seq.sourceforge.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1172&highlight=ShowSWG

[seqmage]

well now that we need to run a key sniffer on our windows box, there is no way at the moment to run a program like that on a PS2.
Now you could probably figure out how a gameshark works and possibly hardcode a sniffer on that..

There may be a good possiblitly that PS2 wont use encryption because the processor is only 150mhz..


just a thought..

When i beta tested EQOA, i could have set SEQ to sniff the packets of the PS2 by setting the IP address.

I didnt..

[casey]

Originally posted by seqmage
There may be a good possiblitly that PS2 wont use encryption because the processor is only 150mhz..

comparing a non-i386 architecture to i386 based soley on clock speed is about the absolutly most meaningless comparison you could have possibly used. earn some RISC, and then give me a clock for clock comparison of a p4 and a power4 chip.

[Amadeus]

Why use the PS2 version of EQ when you have the PC version? /boggle

[mvern]

something to do while afk on raids? :)

[Amadeus]

Gotta love a dev that plays :)

[Jerrith]

Depending on what you want, EQOALog (at http://www.eqoalog.com/ ) may be what you're looking for. It generates an eqoalog.txt file with a text log similar to what EQ generates. It has windows to display the Guild and Buddy lists. It also has a few other useful features (parsing tools) like a DPS calculator, and an experience per second calculator.

It doesn't do anything that you couldn't do with a pen, paper, and a stopwatch though. SOE, at least unofficially, doesn't have any problems with it as a result.

A full ShowEQOA program could be written but would be of limited utility. SOE has learned the lesson of PCEQ, and no longer sends all the spawns in the zone, just those within visual range. No point in having a program that displays nearby spawns, if you can just target them in game. :)

Someone could do a GPS style system, (EQOALog intentionally does not display any coordinate information), but getting around in game, at least so far, isn't too difficult.

Jerrith
30th level Elf Cleric
Ferran's Hope

[Cryonic]

Jerrith
30th level Elf Cleric
Ferran's Hope

Hope that isn't your chars real info.

[Jerrith]

Originally posted by Cryonic
Hope that isn't your chars real info.

Perhaps I should have gone into more depth on the "unofficially". At the launch event for the game, I talked with the Bordael, EQOA's equivalent of Absor, about what this program did and didn't do. As it doesn't do anything you couldn't do with a pen, paper, and stopwatch, he didn't have any problem with it.

If someone wrote a program that did ShowEQ style mapping, or some other exploitive action, they might say something. Just logging to a text file and some parsing? Not likely.

So yes, that's my real info. :)

Jerrith
30th level Elf Cleric
Ferran's Hope

[Rhonwyn]

Originally posted by Jerrith


So yes, that's my real info. :)

Jerrith
30th level Elf Cleric
Ferran's Hope

You are aware that using SEQ goes against the EULA for EQ right? What was being pointed out was that, by being on these boards, you are more than likely an SEQ user and therefore subject to banning.

Anonymity is usually a good thing.

[orenwolf]

I talked with the Bordael, EQOA's equivalent of Absor, about what this program did and didn't do. As it doesn't do anything you couldn't do with a pen, paper, and stopwatch, he didn't have any problem with it.

Very first thing is never take the community relations manager's word for something like that, your program *is* in violation of the EULA, and all it takes is someone else to create a ShowEQ -like app to have Sony go after them *all * (and they'll have to, if they leave yours alone they set a precedent that their EULA is "selectively enforceable".

Moreover though, I'd never use your program. For one, it's closed source, so I have no idea what you're up to, and two, you *charge* for it, which is another reason I'm *sure* Sony will take issue with you at some point, because, again, they liability is too big.

So, I'm not going to pay money for an unknown codebase and the potential to "disappear" someday.

You might have some luck selling it on ebay though, right alongside the "ShowEQ Box" sellers. :)

[Jerrith]

Originally posted by Rhonwyn

You are aware that using SEQ goes against the EULA for EQ right? What was being pointed out was that, by being on these boards, you are more than likely an SEQ user and therefore subject to banning.

Anonymity is usually a good thing.

Yes, SEQ is a violation of the EULA for EQ. My interest in this board is more that the technology(packet sniffing) and game (PCEQ/EQOA) are related. Anonymity is good if you have something to hide, but that isn't the case here. We're not doing anything abusive or malicious, and we're being very open about what we are doing.


Originally posted by orenwolf

Very first thing is never take the community relations manager's word for something like that, your program *is* in violation of the EULA, and all it takes is someone else to create a ShowEQ -like app to have Sony go after them *all * (and they'll have to, if they leave yours alone they set a precedent that their EULA is "selectively enforceable".

Moreover though, I'd never use your program. For one, it's closed source, so I have no idea what you're up to, and two, you *charge* for it, which is another reason I'm *sure* Sony will take issue with you at some point, because, again, they liability is too big.

So, I'm not going to pay money for an unknown codebase and the potential to "disappear" someday.

You might have some luck selling it on ebay though, right alongside the "ShowEQ Box" sellers. :)

It sounds like you're very set in your opinion orenwolf, but I'll try to bring up some noteworthy points:

EQOA has a different EULA. The only point in that EULA that EQOALog could fall under is the one that refers to any action that "violates the spirit of the game", something EQOALog has taken care to avoid.

Yes, it's closed source. So there is some measure of trust involved in running it. You run other applications though, I assume, and you trust those? Not much more I can say here. Yes, there is a charge for it. If there wasn't, it wouldn't have been developed.

There's a free trial, and a $10 charge if you want to keep using it. That's a month's subscription to EQOA, not exactly a huge amount for a program you can use month after month.

It's up to you to decide if you want to run it or not. It's a useful tool, available now, if you want it. If you don't, then just ignore it.

Jerrith
30th level Elf Cleric
Ferran's Hope

[Lyenu X`Arie]

Also to elaborate on this post, when I packetsniffed in beta the packets were not encrypted, so I'm sure that writing a program to do what his does and maybe more would not be difficult. If you trust him and want to pay him for it, thats great, if you don't, and want to make your own, then thats great to!

[KaL]

If you've never tried to reverse-engineer packets, you might indeed think it's a trivial exercise in looking at data, but that's not the case.

Even unencrypted packets can be a lot of work. I tried to help someone with DAOC packets when it first came out, and for me it was a headache-inducing exercise just to figure out a few things, like level, aggression level, and a few other things that I managed to tease out of the data.

[Jerrith]

Well said, Lyenu X`Arie.

You're welcome to use it if you want, and to write your own if you don't.

KaL also describes it fairly well.

For the most part, the EQOA data is relatively easy to read. Damage numbers are sent in a format I hadn't seen before: Basically, the lowest bit is the sign, and the highest bit of each byte says if there is another byte in this number or not...

00 = 0
01 = -1
02 = 1
80 01 = 64
81 01 = -65

Jerrith
31st level Elf Cleric
Ferran's Hope

[orenwolf]

This is from the mouths of the EQOA dev team, via Baelish of Castersrealm:

One difference in EQOA to EQPC is that you can’t see how much damage another player is dealing in your group. This means that there is less of the ‘underpowered/overpowered’ argument between classes as it is more difficult to see the difference in simple DPS a class does. There are some programs which can sniff packets for EQOA to gather some information that would rather not be displayed but these do violate the EULA.

The issue I have is charging for such a product really. And to be honest, it's not with this "lesser showeq" that I'm worried - it's that charging money for such a product my lend more ire from Sony (especially when *you* claim it to be sanctioned, unofficially or otherwise) that might get in the way of other, opensource, collaborative efforts in this direction.

[orenwolf]

I see that, in fact, I was right:

" “The official line, approved by their lawyers, and sent through Alex is that it is a violation of section 11 of the Rules of Conduct, which as stated in section 6 of the EULA may result in the banning/suspension of anyone’s account.

Jerrith”"

Source: EQOARealms (http://www.eqoarealms.com/index.php?page=articles/eqoalog.htm)

I'm not surprised by this in the least, and if I had to guess, the problem here is that you charged for the app. Interestingly, had you just released the thing opensource in the first place, it would have enjoyed the same protections that ShowEQ does - that is, the program isn't "Illegal", and posting it as a SF project would merely have those using it be banned, and since there's no way to know who's using it and all, we would have ended up with a project that could have been used to kickstart a ShowEQOA.

Instead, financial greed and the insanity of trusting someone other than an SOE lawyer resulted in the termination of what otherwise could have been a useful project.

[major]

Ok... I still have interest in this... I was hoping that someone was going to do this, but it has not materialized (at least I can't find it if its out there).

So- is anyone working on such a program? I would love to help, but I don't have the expertise to do this (what fester described) myself.

Also- since jerrith's post, eqoalog is now unavailable