Pretty and all but....

[Fantastik]

This new site is pretty and all but I've got the feeling the original SEQ project is dead.

1) This site is now stressing multiple games/platforms and is stressing keeping developers in line... not outputting a source package.

2) SEQ has been broke for about 2 months.

3) Mvern seems to be the only developer who plays and still codes. Yea yea I know its opensouce and we are all developers. Stuff it. This is not a rant or flame. The simple fact is that there are a core of devlopers who have contributed the majority of the SEQ code. They seem to have quit EQ or have been MIA for a few months.

4) New patch came out. New encryptiion. People have been stating for weeks that the reason SEQ doesnt work is that its been fixed to work on Test. Thats all well and fine. Its been 3 days since last patch. Still nothing.

5) Windows centric memory readers and client/servers are popping up all over the place. They work. The majority of people dont care that its less secure. Now that it can run on 1 or 2 windows boxes, there will be an influx of people usign the windows clients. Why bother setting up a more secure linux box?

My point is, I'm kinda frustrated and sad to see the SEQ project become dead. Its the most secure solution. Its the most elegant. I've tried to discuss the bit stream and code for tools to analyze it mutliple times in irc chat. I've either been told "STFU newbie its fixed in test" or insert other rude comment, or told "Its opensource write it yourself". Well of course I can write it myself. The point of a opensource collaboration is to SHARE code and ideas. If I was gonna write it myself I wouldnt need SEQ to begin with. The front end is trivial to code (notice how fast windows front ends popped up). The only thing that matters is the bitstream. The fact that there seems to be no discussion and collaboration except from people who have nothing good to say greatly discourages a project like this.

And before you start to flame. Think. This post is NOT intended as flame bait. Its my honest assesment of the situation.

[Fantastik]

Before you all fly off the handle something is funky. I think i was one of the first on teh boards and there didnt seem to be a seq section. Therefor the post is kinda in a wierd place. I encourage the moderators to move this thread to seq general discussion since it seems to be there now.

[brian]

Two possibilities:

a) If you can not defeat your enemy, buy him! Maybe the devs got a good deal (there are many possiblities) with Sony. Hey, years of coding finally paid off! :)

b) "Ratt's vision". By delaying the release of a working SEQ his vision comes true. SEQ clones pop out of nowhere. Armageddon now!

Chose your conspiracy now!

(flame as much as you like, I don't care (tm))

[Fantastik]

Originally posted by brian
Two possibilities:

a) If you can not defeat your enemy, buy him! Maybe the devs got a good deal (there are many possiblities) with Sony. Hey, years of coding finally paid off! :)

b) "Ratt's vision". By delaying the release of a working SEQ his vision comes true. SEQ clones pop out of nowhere. Armageddon now!

Chose your conspiracy now!

(flame as much as you like, I don't care (tm))

A is probably not true.

B is a possibility though. Never looked at it that way. It seems it woulda been easier to open up libeq earlier if thats what he wanted though...

[EnvyEyes]

Boy would I love to cram my foot up the ass of anyone who furthers such bullshit. Go back to watching the skies for UFOs and wait for your next visit from the little green men.

[StarZman]

Boy would I love to cram my foot up the ass of anyone who furthers such bullshit. Go back to watching the skies for UFOs and wait for your next visit from the little green men.

ROFLMAO :D

[brian]

Hey EnvyEyes, looks like you are one of these "don't-say-anything-bad-or-disturbing-about-dev's-or-they-will-delay-SEQ-even-longer" type of asskissers.

I think, dev's have a bigger sense of humor :D

[Fantastik]

Originally posted by EnvyEyes
Boy would I love to cram my foot up the ass of anyone who furthers such bullshit. Go back to watching the skies for UFOs and wait for your next visit from the little green men.

Refer to my point above about people who have nothing good to say.

[Jillian]

Originally posted by Fantastik
My point is, I'm kinda frustrated and sad to see the SEQ project become dead. Its the most secure solution.
At it's last working point SEQ still needed the latch to read the key from memory. How is a program like myseq that just reads everything from memory much different in terms of "security"?

[Gilson]

Because an app like MySEQ reads a whole lot of memory multiple times per second, whereas you only had to read memory in with SEQ once each time you zoned to get the key. That, and people were using multiple different keysniffers to get the key with SEQ, so it's harder to identify people using it since there's not a large chunk of people with the exact same app running that they can identify. Something like MySEQ is like waving a giant flag letting Sony know that the app is running. Whether or not they care is a completely different discussion, but the technical difference in terms of how visible it is is definitely there.

[Jaerin]

SOE cannot detect you reading thier memory space in Windows. It's just not possible. They could sniff around for the footprint of the application, but as has said many times before they would get in trouble *AGAIN* for doing that.

Jaerin

[cavemanbob]

The answer to them detecting memory reading is to build a better mousetrap. It's possible to do these reads in a way so that they couldn't detect something else reading it's memory, but I dont have the windows DDK yet so it's on hold for the moment.

Sony could however notice that someone's trying to debug their app. I have my doubts about them actually doing this, but the possibility reamins. As for it being illegal for them to sniff around your comp's memory, this seems a little fishy and besides even if they did how would you ever know?

[Gilson]

Right, like I said, whether or not they'd actually DO it is a totally different argument. Someone asked why the way ShowEQ did things (packet sniffing) was more secure than what MySEQ does (memory reading.) Whether it's legal or not is a totally different subject. All I said was that it'd be harder to see an app that checks one memory location once every 30-40 minutes than one that checks multiple locations multiple times per second.

[casey]

Originally posted by brian
I think, dev's have a bigger sense of humor :D

:D

[Amadeus]

I find it extremely funny how this thread was derailed ..hehe :D People should know by now that trolling for project status doesn't work anyway.

[Fantastik]

*sigh* You have sadly missed the point. I'm using one of the windows skitle programs and I couldnt give a rats ass about the status. There is no status. SEQ is dead. I was lamenting about the failure of a project that was once grand.

I've got a hacked together kde interface going for myself. Still using the windows interface though cause mine isnt as nice. Therefore SEQ is a redundant novelty. I'd still like it to work because of teh security issues, but its not needed anymore. I was trying to share my ideas on how and why it died and is dead. Maybe provoke some real conversation. Its degenerated into a bunch of 3 year olds talking about shoving feet up peoples asses and jibes about how im trolling for status. Bah. You can flame away/troll all ya like. I simple dont care/not worth my time.

[Amadeus]

Oh boy...another "SEQ is dead" believer. I'll file your name away with the rest under the heading "Impatient folks".

Anyone that has been around knows that Ratt is honest, above all things. If SEQ were dead, he'd tell us.

[bubbahlicious]

Originally posted by Amadeus
Oh boy...another "SEQ is dead" believer. I'll file your name away with the rest under the heading "Impatient folks".

Anyone that has been around knows that Ratt is honest, above all things. If SEQ were dead, he'd tell us.

Uh-huh. Sure. We just have to wait a little longer.

Did I meantion that I saw Elvis the other night in a 7-11, gulping down a slurpie? Honest. He's just planning his big come-back. With some patience, the faithful will be rewarded...

Get off it already. ShowEQ as we knew it has been dead for 2 1/2 months now. Ratt's latest posts have been that he's learning MFC and windows programming. Casey's not playing EQ anymore. mvern hasn't said much at all. High Jeeves isn't sharing his code, and the only current work in this area has been on cavemanbob's .NET implementation.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but I don't think anyone's gonna stand up and do it. A Linux-based, EQ network-traffic aware SEQ is a thing of the past.

[Tantoris Thule]

Project Status: dead and buried.

SEQ is gone.. get over it... use the new alternative or be ub3r cool like high_jeeves and code a Java version of SEQ.

I followed his lead and now I have a LOGO version of SEQ working on my C-64.

[Amadeus]

Project Status: dead and buried.

SEQ is gone.. get over it... use


And you have verified this how?

Hell guys, SEQ has only been broke for a couple months (I don't remember the exact date). Have you ever thought that they were perhaps doing a MAJOR overhaul and were waiting to release a new version?


I hate when people with no knowledge or authority make assumptions and post it as truth. Quote me a developer on this project saying it's dead then I'll believe it's dead. If they were giving up, I'm sure they'd post something so we'd leave them the hell alone. Either they're working on it, or else they're taking a break...either way, it means "hiatus", not "death".

[Ratt]

The bottom line, right this moment, is that I seem to be the only "active" developer for the Linux version of SEQ at the moment. And when I say active, I use that loosely.

I work 50+ hours a week and have 10 cr hrs/sem to deal with right now... so my free time is almost non-existant... which is primarily why SEQ has fallen on the way side for me personally. Fee and Zaphod have other reasons and I won't speak for them. I haven't heard from mvern at all.

The semester lasts another 3 weeks, and if I can summon the will and energy to dig back into the SEQ code, I will. I'm currently working on a couple issues that may or may not resolve the current state of SEQ into something working, but again, I hate to make statements like that because they are taken as promises, and I am making no promises at this point.

The current development line of reasoning is to make a hybrid dispatch function that will take either traditional opcode off the wire type data, or take it from MySEQ's server... which hopefully in the future can be back ported into MacroQuest or pared down into something that can be modified easily by others to create their own servers.

That's not a simple task, but it's not as hard as it could be. With my limited time, obviously, this isn't getting done for at least another 3 weeks.

But ... this project is Open Source, one of you people bitching better step up to the plate and do the work, or stop bitching. It's here for you to do the work. Get busy or shut up and wait for myself or someone else to get around to it. But if you choose the later, then you have no cause to complain.

SEQ will be back, it's just a matter of when and in what form.

[Aurelius]

While I will still wait for SeQ to come back from limbo, I can appreciate having to wear so many different hats. Take some time for your self, especially if it means you will come back to the project, but regardless, enjoy life.

I know there are times that the joy of EQ is not so much fun because of various commitments I have made. It is not fun to have to do something. So, kewl out. Take a walk, a vacation, learn to fly like casey. Give us a shout here, now and again.

I would ask, and I realize that I probably don't have to, you to notify us faithful, should you decide to take a prolong hiatus from the project. Otherwise, I will be checking the boards daily as I have for years now. I am still a junkie. ))

Respectfully,
A loyal supporter

[cyankee]

Originally posted by Ratt
The bottom line, right this moment, is that I seem to be the only "active" developer for the Linux version of SEQ at the moment. And when I say active, I use that loosely.

I work 50+ hours a week and have 10 cr hrs/sem to deal with right now... so my free time is almost non-existant... which is primarily why SEQ has fallen on the way side for me personally. Fee and Zaphod have other reasons and I won't speak for them. I haven't heard from mvern at all.

The semester lasts another 3 weeks, and if I can summon the will and energy to dig back into the SEQ code, I will. I'm currently working on a couple issues that may or may not resolve the current state of SEQ into something working, but again, I hate to make statements like that because they are taken as promises, and I am making no promises at this point.

The current development line of reasoning is to make a hybrid dispatch function that will take either traditional opcode off the wire type data, or take it from MySEQ's server... which hopefully in the future can be back ported into MacroQuest or pared down into something that can be modified easily by others to create their own servers.

That's not a simple task, but it's not as hard as it could be. With my limited time, obviously, this isn't getting done for at least another 3 weeks.

But ... this project is Open Source, one of you people bitching better step up to the plate and do the work, or stop bitching. It's here for you to do the work. Get busy or shut up and wait for myself or someone else to get around to it. But if you choose the later, then you have no cause to complain.

SEQ will be back, it's just a matter of when and in what form.

Ya! SEQ Not dead!

Talk about bad timing. I had just decided to get everything setup for this when I discovered that SEQ was broken. Ugh! Oh well. Yes, I am a lurker here and just passively read the posts and garner information when I have time from my busy schedule.

If I could program, I would, but the last language I touch was BASIC back in 1983 and 1984. I don't program anymore. :)

[bubbahlicious]

Mmm.... This foot in my mouth sure tastes good!

I offer my sincerest apologies to mvern and to anyone else I might have offended with my prior post.

PS. What happened to our 'contributing member' tags...?

[cbreaker]

Originally posted by Ratt
But ... this project is Open Source, one of you people bitching better step up to the plate and do the work, or stop bitching.

Cool, hand over the source to libEQ.a and we'll get right on it ~

Although SEQ is (showing spawns) working right now, in the future it may not, and we can't fix it (in it's current form) without libEQ.a. Of course, we could write our own libEQ.a, but that's kinda counter-productive for an "open source" project.

But whateva. cavemanbob's project is superb, and it's only going to get better. I'd much rather use my unix box and seq, but MySEQ's features are quickly getting better and so I have an option of what I'd rather support; something that is completely opensource (MySEQ) or something that is controlled tightly by a few individuals (libEQ.a) that don't have the time to keep actively working on the project.

Not bitching~ More like a rebuttal..

[Ratt]

Cool, hand over the source to libEQ.a and we'll get right on it ~

I've done that on a number of occasions to those that have demonstrated an actual need for it. (IE - they are actively coding, instead of just yakkin' about it) So... get to work, and it's all yours.