Hundreds of Characters Deleted in Crackdown

[MQSEQ2]

Read the links below and just be careful on what you are doing.

http://macroquest.sourceforge.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4474

Remember this could be more talk than actions.

[Stogar]

Probably would be wise to play EQ the old fashoned way until it's figured out what was changed server side.

[LordCrush]

or use ShowEQ ;) *duck*



-- sorry could not resist :D

[MQSEQ2]

You can still use MySEQ just rename the Server .exe to something else if you want.

That should stop them from finding it. Remember they can't go searching your hard drive and poke into your memory with out you giving them consent. If they do they open themselves up for a class action lawsuit (ask Prodigy about that one hehe and they lost).

You are not breaking any laws with MySEQ just a useless EULA (which no one reads because of the length and lawyer talk in it). Since they don't notify you that the EULA changed since the last time you logged in they would stand a hard chance of saying you clicked on it blah blah cause you could have read it and you logged in 100 times and it never changed. They cant prove that a prudent person would be expected to read it everytime they ran EQ, much less understand everything in it (it's like 15 pages long). For example you are a 15 yr kid, do they really think they know the laws within the EULA?

Now as for SEQ it's self it will work and is undetecable but it can be very hard to setup and run if you don't know Linux. Now I will look into premiscous mode (ie what SEQ does) but that will take awhile for me to learn everything.

[Mixy!]

Assuming i still have an account when i get home... i can just change the server exe to whatever else i want and it wont cause any ill effects? There are no paths or ini's i would have to modify?

-Mixy!

[SurfAngel]

Originally posted by MQSEQ2
That should stop them from finding it. Remember they can't go searching your hard drive and poke into your memory with out you giving them consent. If they do they open themselves up for a class action lawsuit (ask Prodigy about that one hehe and they lost).

You are not breaking any laws with MySEQ just a useless EULA (which no one reads because of the length and lawyer talk in it). Since they don't notify you that the EULA changed since the last time you logged in they would stand a hard chance of saying you clicked on it blah blah cause you could have read it and you logged in 100 times and it never changed. They cant prove that a prudent person would be expected to read it everytime they ran EQ, much less understand everything in it (it's like 15 pages long). For example you are a 15 yr kid, do they really think they know the laws within the EULA?Class action or not, most of us are not going to spend the time, get an attorney, file a class action lawsuit, and be the poster child going up against SoE, announcing to our friends and guildies and everyone in EQ that we are cheaters. Its not worth the effort and agony to most and SoE can/will bank on that.

Besides, they are not going to use what they "found" running in memory or stored on your hard drive or to pin you. Instead, they are going to use that to flag you internally for further investigation. If they think something fishy is going on, they'll either stick a GM on you to watch what you say and what you do. Be sure that they have the capability to watch everything and log everything.

Be damn sure that they will say nothing about "we found out that the cheater has this and that on his/her hard drive". They'll say "we have a GM watching so and so over a period of time and come to the conclusion that so and so is cheating". So don't say it in any way form or manner within the game. Use code names and code words if you must. Talk over the phone or ICQ. If you are not a tracker and have no scouting eyeball, say nothing about what's up and what's not, etc. Just be careful to hide your divine knowledge and say only what you "should" know.

Cheating is an art. :)

[MQSEQ2]

I know they won't scan your hard drive and memory but they could and yes you may never know but I gurantee you that the folks at MQ and SEQ and a few others monitor traffic being sent back and fourth and all it takes is getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar, if they got caught news would spread like wildfire and the class action would be done very quick (It's the American way of life, sue everybody).

Now if you dont want to get caught then dont talk about in game and dont run straight to a spawn. Or don't use 3rd party products. Those are the normal warnings.

[Stogar]

or use ShowEQ *duck*

Yeah I have a machine running SEQ also. I'm just using that alone the next few days.

I have a modified version of MySEQ I run more for mobility on my laptop. And being a little less than a wiz programmer, it's a bit smaller scale for me to fool around with.

I was one of those how was all for Ratt's "let rip the dogs of war" capaign. Now after all this I think I need to reverse that opinion and get back to being a purist in the "Pre-compiled binaries are the root fo all evil" camp.

Yes I'm all for helping responsible people who just aren't as technical as some, but it's a trade off.

[MQSEQ2]

Mixy you should be able to rename the .exe with no problems but not the Ini. I was in the process of adding code that would use the name of the .exe (minus .exe) for the .Ini file. For example myseqserver.exe would read myseqserver.ini and dogs.exe would read dogs.ini.

[SurfAngel]

This is the "dup", not really a dup but a macro exploit.

Firiona Vie server board (http://pub94.ezboard.com/ffirionaviefrm4.showMessageRange?topicID=4585.topi c&start=1&stop=20)

Its been fixed.

[Alfred]

Originally posted by SurfAngel
Class action or not, most of us are not going to spend the time, get an attorney, file a class action lawsuit, and be the poster child going up against SoE, announcing to our friends and guildies and everyone in EQ that we are cheaters. Its not worth the effort and agony to most and SoE can/will bank on that.

Besides, they are not going to use what they "found" running in memory or stored on your hard drive or to pin you. Instead, they are going to use that to flag you internally for further investigation. If they think something fishy is going on, they'll either stick a GM on you to watch what you say and what you do. Be sure that they have the capability to watch everything and log everything.

Be damn sure that they will say nothing about "we found out that the cheater has this and that on his/her hard drive". They'll say "we have a GM watching so and so over a period of time and come to the conclusion that so and so is cheating". So don't say it in any way form or manner within the game. Use code names and code words if you must. Talk over the phone or ICQ. If you are not a tracker and have no scouting eyeball, say nothing about what's up and what's not, etc. Just be careful to hide your divine knowledge and say only what you "should" know.

Cheating is an art. :)

Are you certain you don't go by the old handle Mr Suspicious(sp?)? ;) An old haunt of this board that was certain the black copters were outside his window every night. :)

[SurfAngel]

Hehe. No. No hidden identity here ... err .. wait, it is hidden ... LOL :D

[DieAlot]

They are concerned with the growing number of people copying everquest to a different directory, then changeing JUST the eqhost.txt file and logging into someone elses SERVER and playing them. Picture yourself being a basic wizard on a mud, and the Server Administrator is the Archwizard of the mud. >:)
the Whole game of everquest is free inside. You look it up like a guide, get the number and clone it. Unlimited potions, etc. Believe me, they've got alot on their minds these days.
Don't know what I'm talking about? Go visit the original board for ShowEQ, and read their forums, they point to more...

[DieAlot]

the emulators are still an issue for them.

[MQSEQ2]

If you read the following:

http://eqlive.station.sony.com/support/customer_service/cs_EULA.jsp



9. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to change Game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.

If you read this line by line this is what it means to MySEQ:



You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to change Game play.

MySEQ doesn't modify EQ the game in any fashion, we are passively monitoring data on the client machine. We are in now way directly changing how the EQ Client is communicating to the EQ Servers and we are not modifying the contents with the game.



You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators.

MySEQ doesn't allow anyone to play the game via any method. Even with the MQ Console in MySEQ doesn't break this because you are not required to use it and the MQConsole is nothing more than a Telnet client.



You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure.

This is very interesting, this actually states that we can make 3rd party products as long as we don't bog there systems down. Now since MySEQ is Client side only this don't apply at all since it's your computer being taxed by 3rd party software. Maybe if Sony would add some Doevents/Sleep in the EQ Client you could have a pc that actually doesn't get bogged down with lag (EQ is a CPU hog).



You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.

We since MySEQ doesn't buy/sell/auction this don't apply to us either.

Now with all this read and said MySEQ is legal to use based on EQ's EULA. The rest of the EULA talks about accounts and media etc. etc. If you are a lawyer or know one and want to verify this please do. Now that we point it out they might change the EULA but I still don't agree with any EULA due to you purchase the rights to use the software on your system (key point there) and as long as you are paying a monthly fee to play on there servers EULA's are worthless.

[Reichfuhrer]

They are not going to do anything to the average player as long as you aren't causing some kind of problem. Could they? Sure. But I don't think they are a bunch of Gestapo types just waiting to flush another customer down the toilet. I'll tempt the God's now:

Hey SOE, I'm Reichfuhrer of the Brell server. Shut down my account please! I use Myseq all the time and I love it! You don't really need the few hundred dollars a year I spend, make an example out of me so we'll know once and for all whether or not you H8 MySEQ users. :mad:

[Bob the builder]

No, wait, stop !!!

I am Reichfuhrer from Brell server. . . don't ban my acount

[CybMax]

7. Subject to the terms of this Agreement, we hereby grant to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, revocable license to use the Software solely in connection with playing the Game via an authorized and fully-paid Account. You may not copy (except to make one necessary back-up copy), distribute, sell, auction, rent, lease, loan, modify or create derivative works, adapt, translate, perform, display, sublicense or transfer all or any portion of the Software. You may not copy any of the written materials accompanying the Software. You may not reverse engineer, disassemble or decompile the Software except to the extent that this restriction is expressly prohibited by applicable law. The Software may contain license management software that restricts your use of the Software.


I kinda look at this line tho : You may not reverse engineer, disassemble or decompile the Software except to the extent that this restriction is expressly prohibited by applicable law.

Well.. Dunno if this would only apply to the files on the harddrive, or also to the memory when the game is loaded.. I mean.. i would think it would break the EULA if you decompiled the eqgame.exe as a file.. but perhaps on the borders since you really cant help it that the game is loaded to memory when you play.. Since MySEQ aint changing or writing directly to memory or any file, it is at least a helluva lot more "legal" towards the EULA than MacroQuest is tho.. MQ does change "live" data directly in memory..

[MQSEQ2]

MySEQ did not decompile or disassemble anything and since memory is different than Sony's software it doesn't fall under the same rule. Once a program is loaded into memory then anything can access it for what ever purpose. Take an AntiVirus program, those access the memory space of everything running and examines the data for viruses.

I've heard/read something about this type of issue and I do believe the software manufacture lost the battle over it in the past. You have the right to monitor the activity of any software that is running on your machine. That's how Prodigy was busted for gethering chunks of data files and sending it back to them so they could use it for marketing research. If anyone has access to Weslaw (thinks that's the name been way to long) you can search previous court ruling on the subject.

[JustAnotherUser]

Well, i would say. if they find out you do disturbing things to EQ, like hogging spawns with MYSeq or useing 3rd party programms, and they find it out by scanning your HDD, they will just ban you and give you no reason at all. They just say, hei, we dont want you as customer anymore and you can do absolutely nothing about it, as they can terminate their service at any given time.

[MQSEQ2]

Your right they can scan your harddrive at the risk of being caught and having a class action lawsuit from 400,000+ accounts. So that won't happen and it's very easy to use Regmon and Filemon to track what program is searching harddrives and registery access.

If you abuse the system then you run the risk of getting banned. I've had it running before and had a GM tell me to share a spawn and I told them NO I refused since I sat there waiting for the camp, he wanted me to alternate spawns (2 hr spawn) and I said afraid not and offer to sell the drop to the folks, but I would not give up the camp. There are no rules about camps except whoever hits it first it's theres and thats questionable. It's a play nice with other system that doesn't work all that well.

[CybMax]

As long as you dont brag around you got that software, there is really no way you will be caught... Of course running from spawn to spawn with your non-tracking character can seem a bit suspicious if you somehow get a GM to review you in the first place.

Take LDoN.. Many of the ingame maps have market "BOSS Spawn" on them.. if you happen to be playing a non tracker, and there is no tracker in the group.. noone really suspects sumtin if you say "Hey.. my map has "BOSS" marked at this spot.. lets go check if sumtin is up" .. Especially if your ingame maps actually GOT this (so others in group can check and say "yeah.. he is right").. Of course.. here as well.. use moderation, and dont start argue if ppl wanna go to another spot to check... the name of the game is "Be clever.. you might get "lucky" on a spawn".. hehe

Another thing besides the map function is that you can as well make your way to whatever late raid or whatnot mostly running around spawns and actually seeing where your buddys are.. "Gimme a loc pls" .. and they do.. if you are lucky and avoid any mobs on the way, and always hit the correct loc dead on.. you are just a "good gamer" :P

[MQSEQ2]

Very true, use MySEQ and play very Smart. I've used SEQ for over 2 years now and it's very easy to tell when folks are in zone using it. You can see them and they can see you. If you don't know them very well then don't tell them what resources you have. Last thing you talk about something in game that others can't then expect to get reported.

[Blind Aviator]

As I found it on an EQ related website....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've had it running before and had a GM tell me to share a spawn and I told them NO I refused since I sat there waiting for the camp, he wanted me to alternate spawns (2 hr spawn) and I said afraid not and offer to sell the drop to the folks, but I would not give up the camp. There are no rules about camps except whoever hits it first it's theres and thats questionable.
EVERQUEST POLICIES AND PROCEDURE MANUAL

2.35 Disruption Definition and Procedures
Disruption is defined as any activity that is disruptive to the game play of others, though not necessarily with the intent to do so. Disruption has been sub-categorized into major and minor types.

2.35.5 Examples of Major Disruption:
• Zone/Area Disruption: Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area rather than stealing from a specific player or group of players; deliberately blocking a doorway or narrow area so other players can't get past; or refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by a CSR or Guide+.

[MQSEQ2]

I wasn't Monopolizing most or all of the kills, I was killing them to get enough JProds for my guys in my group. It's no fdifferent then you camping the FBSS spawn until you are done getting it for everyone in the group.

Now based on the so called rules if youy are camping (even tho there is no rules about camping) a spawn and I come up I can take over the camp if I wanted to and the GM can't do anything about it. This was straight from a GM's mouth when I gave him a simular example and all he could say is it's a play fair with other systems. But I've had folks KS Hadden even tho I had been sitting there for 30 hrs straight and the GM said contact us next time before the spawn (which I did 30 mins before it spawned) and the guide showed up 30 mins after the KS.

Good Job Sony, ask for Guides and then turn them all down so there is no CSR to be found in game. Then you contact them outside game via phone or web and get told that's handle by in game GM's.

[MacQ]

Reichfuhrer...you have been banned ;)

[MQSEQ2]

What is the status of Reichfuhrer?

[Bob the builder]

What is the status of Reichfuhrer?

My account is still active as I type this. Thanls for the concern.

Bob

[MQSEQ2]

Cool :)

[xeerex]

As far as "camps" go and KS's, a prime example is the Ancient Cyclops for JBoots. When I began my hunt for the boots, I was KS'ed more times that I can count in SRo.

Petitioning GM's brought the general respones of (paraphrasing), "SOE does not recognize camps. All mobs are considered FFA unless the PnP is violated. If you feel someone has violated the PnP, then please report them."

Now, in OOT most players seem to follow the "accepted norms" of camps and spawns but not always. I've "raced" someone to kill the AC in both places.

In spite of that fact, I still follow the "accepted norms" of camps and kills whenever I play unless someone is being a jerk. Then I follow the famous words of Fansy the Famous Bard: "You've Got Mail!".

BTW, my character name is Xeerex also and I host the MySEQ self-installers on my personal website, where my guild website is hosted as well.;)

[Dark]

Originally posted by xeerex
As far as "camps" go and KS's, a prime example is the Ancient Cyclops for JBoots. When I began my hunt for the boots, I was KS'ed more times that I can count in SRo.


Off topic
My understanding is that the S Ro AC is a FFA because it can spawn anywhere. 2 of my toons ‘camped’ there and competed with others for it.
Maybe it was just on my server /shrug

[MQSEQ2]

All mobs are FFA by the rules of the game. It's up to the Players to play nice with others. GM's can't really do anything about the problems unless bad language and harassment is going on.

[xeerex]

My understanding is that the S Ro AC is a FFA because it can spawn anywhere

Theoretically, it can spawn from anywhere, but there are really 4 spawn points.

However, the AC is still a FFA even in OOT. SOE does not recognize camps. In other words, in OOT the AC is on an 8-12 hour cycle. If I've been sitting there for 8 hours and you pop in and it spawns, then whomever kills it first gets it and the AC only spawns in 1 place. That is point blank from a GM although people in OOT are generally more considerate.

[Reichfuhrer]

I am the real Reichfuhrer, the other guy is an imposter. And yes, my account is fine. :cool:

[MQSEQ2]

Glad to hear your ok ;)

[Bob the builder]

Reichfuhrer, my whole point was that SOE can't come here, find a name, find a server, compare the two then band the person just cause someone said there 'soandso'

Anyways, no I am not Reichfuhrer. I only said I was to make a point which wasn't taken .... /shrug

It don't matter though, SOE can't band yas for saying your someone on a message board.

Bob

[MQSEQ2]

Very true since I'm MQSEQ2 "The Pain in EQ's butt". The icon I use represents that. I'm just here to prod them along the right path.

[aneqplayer]

However, the AC is still a FFA even in OOT. SOE does not recognize camps

Actually they do recognize a few. When a mob is spawned due directly to the death of a spawner, such as emp, fennin, etc, the people with the exp from the spawner get the rights.
Crying about frenzied spawning and getting ks'd is moot these days, play red server if getting even is important.

[xeerex]

When a mob is spawned due directly to the death of a spawner, such as emp, fennin, etc...

That's actually triggering a spawn and not camping. Camping is sitting and waiting out a spawn cycle.

I'm not trying to debate really, but rather stating a fact that SOE doesn't recognize camps unless the PnP is broken and thats a liberal judgment call.


It don't matter though, SOE can't band yas for saying your someone on a message board.

What makes you so sure they can't? If you haven't reviewed the EULA lately, they can basically ban you because they don't like you.

From the EULA

6.......or upon gameplay, chat or any player activity whatsoever which we, in our sole discretion, determine is inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game as set forth in the Game player rules of conduct,.....

The truth is that they probably aren't going to jack with MySEQ and ShowEQ as they are passive and provide no real advantage except giving a "tracking" ability to non-tracking classes.

I'm not against MQ at all, but that is a whole different can of worms because you do have several abilities to dramatically alter gameplay and the economy. When enough people gripe and you have complaint threads on SOE's boards, then they are going to set some examples. Interestingly, in the whole thread over "watching the guy macro", not one time that I saw did ShowEQ or MySEQ get mentioned, but MQ did.

[datadog]

Wow,

Did someone just post another EQ Players actual in game character name on these boards to prove his point that Sony wouldnt ban them?

How brave !

[Bob the builder]

Did someone just post another EQ Players actual in game character name

He says its his account not someone elses, but that was my point. I'd hope SOE does not run its bussiness model by banning people for what they say on a public message board since there is no "sure fire" way for them to determine the true account.

[MQSEQ2]

For example, I hate this guy named XYZ, so I come here and create a user named XYZ and post crap about Sony etc. Now Sony can't prove that I'm the real XYZ, so if Sony bans XYZ because what I wrote they would be in the wrong.

As for Rule 6, that only pertains in game and on there boards. Believe it or not we still have freedom of speech everywhere else.

[xeerex]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a paranoid person, hence the use of my main characters name on this board. I'm not trying to prove a point that SOE won't ban me either. I just happen to use Xeerex for most message boards that I participate. If they ban me, then so be it. That will save me about $200/year and untold hours of time. ;)

I also don't think SOE reps lurk the boards that much. Hell, they don't even have enough staff to have volunteer GM's ingame much less lurkers.

My point is that they could, can, and probably do lurk these boards and others somewhat. The main thing, which has been stated over and over, is "don't abuse the privilege" of having programs like MySEQ and MQ available. Don't ripple the water and you won't be noticed.

Ok, I'm off my philosophy kick and off to try and do something constructive for a bit. My hat is off to virtually all MySEQ and ShowEQ users since we generally seem to be a quiet bunch. :cool:

[datadog]

nt

[MacQ]

MYSEQ2, now I get your icon...the pain in EQ's butt...very creative :D

[MQSEQ2]

hehe, I have a funny sense of humor. You should decipher my tutorial on How to find Offsets. Each one of the chunk of memory code has something funny in them.

Go to http://www.asciichart.com to help you (Hex to ASCII). ;)

[Reichfuhrer]

Originally posted by Bob the builder
Reichfuhrer, my whole point was that SOE can't come here, find a name, find a server, compare the two then band the person just cause someone said there 'soandso'

Anyways, no I am not Reichfuhrer. I only said I was to make a point which wasn't taken .... /shrug

It don't matter though, SOE can't band yas for saying your someone on a message board.

Bob

True, but it would not be hard for them to watch Reichfuhrer on the Brell server if they were inclined to investigate the matter. If Reichfuhrer didn't look kosher, they would be able to act on that. Of course I wouldn't think that they would off the cuff ban an account just because someone posted a message claiming to be Reichfuhrer.

My point is, even if they check out these forums, I don't think they give two hoots and a hollar whether or not people run MySEQ. They would probably care if you were causeing a major disruption or problem with other customers, but if you are a silent user, they aren't going to do anything to a paying customer.

Reichfuhrer, proud user of MySEQ and still going strong!

[MQSEQ2]

The only one Sony would care about getting is me since I do most of the development right now. That would be the feather in their hat. But in reality all they would do is cause more problems since I would dedicate myself (yeah more than I do now) in making MySEQ better (with offset Hacks) and would promote in in Google with very easy instructions for everyone to use. As it is right now I won't put the Offset Hacks in becuase they are leaving us alone. I repect them as they appear to respect us for not stepping over the boundaries like some of the others that have caused problems.