Looking for 100Mb True Hub

[fluke]

I did use the search function (though you can't use HUB as a search term since it is too short), and came up with alot of folks saying this make or this model is a switch not a hub.

I was hoping somebody had a recommendation on a true HUB that is 100MB capable. I have personally bought SMC, LinkSYS, Netgear, and had the same result, all the new ones are actually SWITCHES.

Right now I am borrowing a VERY old and VERY VERY big Asante' hub from work that is working fine, only problem is next time we have a trade show I will have to give it up again.

So just hoping to start a discussion about what brands others have found to use.

[high_jeeves]

I use a Netgear DS104, 10/100, and is a hub.

I think most other than linksys are actually hubs, if your other SMC and Netgear didnt work, it might be something else in your setup.

Edit: typo

[Madd]

I use a Linksys Cable DSL router BEFSR41 is this going to work? I use it for DHCP too.

Or am I going to have to buy a hub?

Thanks

Madd

[high_jeeves]

You are going to have to buy a hub. All routers, and many new hubs (linksys in particular) are switches.

--Jeeves

[fluke]

Thanks Jeeves,

will look for a DS-104.

Actually everything in my setup works with the Asante' (which isn't mine but I can use between it being tasked for other things) or with my old netgear 10Mb hub. Problem is I guess I have had bad luck buying new stuff off the shelf, seems many manufacturers don't really care what a HUB really is (vs. a switch).

[fryfrog]

if you still have a 10mbit hub just laying around, the act of merely plugging it into your shiney new X port 10/100 hub-switch will turn the 10mbit plane and the 100mbit plane into a real hub! between the 10 and 100 is still switched (ie, a 10mbit device won't see 100mbit traffic) but a 100mbit device WILL see 100mbit traffic. hurray!

[Ataal]

This is what I have:

D-Link DFE-904 Fast _ST-NW-DLI0581 1 24.00
Ethernet 4-Port Dual
Speed 10/100Mbps RJ45 Hub

I pasted it directly from my "digital receipt", as you can see, I only paid $24 for it. got it from shentech.com

It is indeed a dumb hub. :p

[monster69]

Just to clarify something.

The less expensive 10/100 hubs are basically 2 devices in one. there is a 10Mb hub and and 100Mb hub attached to each port. the port autosenses the speed and connects to the appropriate hub. In the back of the unit is a switch that handles traffic flow between the 10Mb side and the 100Mb side.

Therefore, most of the Linksys, Netgear etc devices will work if the following condition is met:

Your ShowEQ box and your EQ box must be running the same speed Network cards. i.e. both 10Mb or both 100Mb.

I have tested this on several different brands and models (thanks to lots of friends) and this has been true in every case so far.

For a device to be a "true" switch (i.e. each port is switched instead of just the 10Mb and 100Mb planes) you start geting into devices that run about $400 for a cheep one. The electronics involved to make every port a switch port are expensive compared to a hub.

[Ataal]

The one I posted has an actual switch on it to manually switch from 10Mb to 100Mb. The hubs you're referring to are typically called "autosensing" 10/100 hubs.

[high_jeeves]

Actually monster, many of the off the shelf $70 "hubs" are true switches. They are fully switched (not just between the 10Mbit and 100Mbit planes).

The technology is just so cheap these days, that it isnt even cost effective for some vendors to have a switch product line and a hub product line, when they can just build a 4 port "hub" using their switch production lines.

I think that all autosensing 10/100 hubs (which most more recent ones are) are switched between the planes because it is more cost effective than stepping the signal up from 10 to 100 and repeating (especially since a down step is not possible, and would therefore require a switch for the uplink port anyways in the case of a 10Mbit uplink).

--Jeeves

[3phase]

I read another thread Fryfrog commented in and I have a question. I had a setup dsl=>router==>4 port hub (which after using the uplink port and not letting you use port next to uplink means I can only connect 2 comps linux and eqbox)

This worked fine, BUT after reading other posts it seems as if I could also make use of a 8 port 10/100 hub (so I could swap big files at 100 on home network) and if I could use the 8 port 10/100 I could monitor my 2nd eq computer on the same linux box. My revised setup (adaptation of Fryfrog's layout in another thread)

DSL
|
10 port hub
| |
| Showeq box (192.168.1.3)
|
Router/4 port switch (no dchp)192.168.1.1
|
|
8 port 10/100 Hub
| \
| \
eqbox1 eqbox2
192.168.1.2 192.168.1.4
10/100 nic 10/100 nic

I can monitor 1 eq session IF it autodetects. It then grabs some routable IP 208.x.x.x and accepts packets from both eq machines and the nav portion goes crazy. I tried showeq -i eth0 192.168.1.2. It says it detects it, but wont filter anything.

Anyone see that I'm missing anything?

Does using a non routable IP on showeq box off hub keep it "protected"? (yes it used to be behind the router but I didnt see a reason to change it)

Is it possible to use MAC addresses to resolve any of this?

Thanks

[high_jeeves]

I'm assuming that your Router is doing NAT. Which means that both EQ machines look like they are on the same IP addr (but different ports) to the ShowEQ box. To fix this, you can remove the top 10 port hub, and place the showEQ box on the 8 port hub on the bottom asuming that all three devices are on the 100Mbit plane.

--Jeeves

[fryfrog]

plug the showeq linux box into the 10/100 hub. also, just plug the 10mbit hub up to the 10/100 hub. don't hook anything to the 10mbit hub, just make sure it has link lights.

by having a 10mbit device hooked to at 10/100 switch-hub, it forces the 10mbit and the 100mbit portion into a real hub. your 100mbit linux box will be able to sniff the 100mbit eq boxes.

[3phase]

Woot! thanks Fryfrog. I thought I'd come back and clarify what I did in hopes that what I learned by people helping me may help someone else using the search feature (some do right? hehe)

For me, I had

DSL line to Router
Router to 4 port 10 Hub
4 port 10 Hub to 8 port 10/100 Hub
2 EQ, 1 linux box hooked to the 8 port hub, Linux box can finally sniff this way.

Note: I tried other configs, and without the 10 port hub hooking to the 8 port 10/100 Hub (switch) the linux box could NOT sniff (and yes all 3 computers have 10/100 NIC cards). I don't know why it works, but thank you Fryfrog for pointing this out!

[fryfrog]

as a test would you mind not hooking the 10mbit hub between the 10/100 and your router? put it as another device on the 10/100 hub like the following...

[router]
|
10/100 hub
| | | |
10mbit hub comp comp comp

i THINK that just by having the 10mbit hub plugged into your 10/100 hub-switch, that is should all work fine. it would also in theory reduce the number of devices between you and the internet which is always a good thing :)

[3phase]

I'll give that a shot this weekend. The fact that plugging a 10mb hub into a switching 10/100 hub seems to allow the linux box to sniff has got me wondering.

Why does it work? The 10mb hub isnt doing anything as a hub, but is forcing the switching 10/100 hub to do what that allows me to now sniff computers on the same 10/100 hub.... that without the 10mb hub hooked up to the 10/100 hub I can't sniff packets.

So..the questions is, couldn't we make something that would be easy to build and eliminate the need to have a 10mb hub to plug into the 10/100 switching hub to make it all work?

Could it be as simple as a special cable that makes the 10/100 hub think a 10mb device was hooked up.

Since this solution worked for me, and SO many of the help requests are "I can't sniff packets on my xxxx brand 10/100 hub" I'd think there should be some solution that might alow folks to use that existing hub without the need to go buy another 10mb hub.

[high_jeeves]

I think the theory is that there is one switch in a 10/100 switch-hub. When there are all 100Mbit devices, the switch is active on the 100Mbit plane and the 10Mbit plane is dead. When there are both devices, the switch changes to become active between the planes (because you cant straight hub 100MBit and 10Mbit traffic), making each plane a true hub.

If this is the case, then the device needs to create an active link on the 10Mbit plane. The cheapest solution here would be a 10Mbit hub (since they are about $10), or just go buy a netgear hub, since they dont switch at all. I dont think a cable would work because a) it isnt powered and b) it wont establish an actual 10Mbit link.

--Jeeves

[three-p-o]

ok people I'm sick of you all saying omg you can't use any linksys 10/100 hubs cause its a switch..
Or I got seq on a linux box with a 10mbit card ans my windows box has a 100mbit card and I'm using a 10/100 hub.


Here is the deal.

Make sure that ALL RELAVENT SYSTEMS are running at the same speed.
Thats
Cable modem 10mbit
Eq comp 10mbit
seq comp 10mbit

or

Cable modem 100mbit
Eq comp 100mbit
seq comp 100mbit

IF this is setup correctly even the linksys hubs will allow seq to see the packets.

I repeat ALL SYSTEMS need to run at the same speed on the hub.

I run mine on a Linksys etherfast 10/100 16 port workgroup hub without a problem before I got this I was using the 8 port equivalent version.

Linksys hubs are not the problem its your network speeds

[Burnereq]

Am I in the stone ages? Since when is there a 100mb Cable modem or DSL modem. The easiest way to set up show eq is to get a Linksys 4port cable router($99 compusa) and a 10/100 hub($30 compusa) Run as follows Cable modem-----> Linksys Router----->10/100 hub-----> EQmachine and seq machine. Leave all your network card on Autodetect. Its all pretty much plug and play. Or it was for me. I didnt even have to program the router, it autodetects all the DHCP settings. As far as a Hub goes, get a generic POS for as low cost as possible. Rule of thumb is Routers are always more expensive.

Yes I'm a linux newb and somehow i actually got seq Installed and working properly.

Just my 3 Cents

[high_jeeves]

actually three-p-o, MANY Linksys Hubs DO NOT WORK. They are switches. I have 4 hubs/switches at a home a Linksys 4 port 10/100, Netgear 8 port 10Mbit, Netgear 4 port 10/100, and Linksys 16 port 10/100.

2 of my devices work for showEQ, the two netgear devices. The two linksys devices do not work (With all of the same hardware).

Do you have your cable modem hooked directly up to the linksys? If so, it is possible it works because it is switching between the planes, and broadcasting on plane (ie, 10Mbit traffic from Cable Modem is switched to 100Mbit plane where it is broadcast). Or, you have one of the models which are true hubs (the common linksys 4 port hubs you find at bestbuy are actually switches!).

Many other people on these boards have fixed their problems by switching hubs. So, while I did read in a magazine somewhere that if three-p-o's hub works then every linksys must work, I must say that it is not true.

--Jeeves