Self Installers for 1.15.14 Posted

[xeerex]

Well, I skipped posting for .13, but with the flu bug and falling behind with work, I had to catch up.

Anyway, the self-installer for 1.15.14 is now posted for your convenience.

Xee's Self Installer Page (http://www.rexpage.com/MySEQ)

Of course, I have posted extensive instructions so please read them first if you are a first time user of MySEQ.:D

BTW, if these self-installers are useful to you, I just ask for a simple thanks every now and then. Also, a simple thanks to MYSEQ2 and the other devs would be great. Since I've had over 2800 downloads alone, I know someone is getting use out this whole project.

[MQSEQ2]

Thanks Xeerex (even tho I don't use the installers hehe) they are great and the site looks very professional.

I get PM with thank yous from time to time and it does make it worth while to see folks actually likes what we are trying to do.

Keep up the good work!

[Stogar]

Setting aside my opinion on giving this stuff out to every moron who can click, and all the account stealing code that can be put in precompiled binaries, I do have a question.

Since MySEQ is hosted on Sourceforge and a GPL piece of software. Doesn't that require including the source code with any distribution?

It'd probably be a good idea also to protect yourself. A user could then compile the source code in your distribution to verify that it's safe and matches your binary.

[MQSEQ2]

I can't follow the source question since it is available!

The source is available at the site I upload it to and then Xeerex then get's from there and makes the installer from it. Until recently we didn't have access to update the CVS. When I get time I will put it there.

As for the .Exe I have proven that anyone can compile the code without having Visual Studio .Net 2003 installed on your system. MySEQ does not modify EQ the game in anyway so it's really hard to abuse it. SEQ, MQ and MySEQ all are very simple to setup and install since there are decent walkthrus out there. So to be irrogant in thinking that .Exe's will stop the abusive use of these tools then we have other issues. I will stop programming MySEQ once Sony adds these types of features into the game, that will solve all the issues.

[xeerex]

Setting aside my opinion on those who have an opinion on everyone that can click including the morons who click around this board ;) , the files I post are the exact same files posted by the Devs. I simply use an installer program to create the setup.exe file that places everything in a directory structure and creates some shortcuts and an uninstaller. Therefore, there is no additional source to be provided.

I'm not a developer and don't compile any new binaries for the program itself. As a matter of fact, the compiler batch file is included in the self-installer package.

Now I suppose that you can argue that the setup.exe is a binary file; however, it is the MS MSI package. If you are worried about trojans or anything else, then you have to option to NOT use the self-installers just as I have the option to post them.

[Stogar]

Setting aside my opinion of your opinion of my opinion of morons.

The bottom line is being "Open Source" on Sourceforge and GPL, doesn't that mean that any distribution needs to distribute source code with compiled?


I use Wise myself, and EXE or MSI or MST or WSI or whatever, my meaning of binary was anything in a compiled form, anything other than "plain text" source code.


Now back to my opinion (you can stop reading here if you think I'm nuts).

[edited] Actually this is a pointless argument, we aren't going to see eye to eye so no point if wasting my time typing.

[MQSEQ2]

I have been given a lot of trust form the community and have helped alot via connecting to there systems and working the issues. I have not and will not expolit these folks and any others in the community. I have made it so anyone can look thru the code and once they have decided it looks good (ie. trojans, password sniffers, etc.) they can compile it them self via the Compile.Bat.

This solves the trust issue, but what Stogar doesn't like is us giving the .Exe and he's really going to hate the Compile.Bat file. He thought process is we are making it way to easy for folks to get MySEQ and install it which will make Sony address this fact. I say Sony add the features and I can stop programming and start enjoying the game more.

[xeerex]

Oh I understand the thought process and at some level can appreciate it. However, here are my problems:

(1) Everyone who clicks is now a moron, including the name caller since I'm quite sure he has a mouse of some sort.

(2) If the "elitist" mentalilty really wants to prevail, then why in the hell do this on an open message board system? The only conclusion I can see is ego-centric.

In other words, if the devs were using it for personal gain only, then don't mention it ever on the Net. If the devs wanted to share it with a group, then use a private message board system.

In reality, it "appears" to be an elitist mentality pure and simple. Its like "here...we can develop this but make your mouth drool since we can use it, but since we think you can't then you are not worthy." The hell of it is that you can say that you like the technical aspects of the program and all that other great non-sense, but in the end you are using a cheat for the game just like the rest of us.

(3) I'd suggest those who quote the GPL actually go and read up on it. For convenience, here's the link http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html. Those who quote it should pay particular attention the first several paragraphs.

/em steps off his soapbox for the day.

I would again like to thank the devs of the original SEQ project for their foresight and for the continuing efforts of all the devs today for the Linux and Windows versions.

[MQSEQ2]

The bottom line is being "Open Source" on Sourceforge and GPL, doesn't that mean that any distribution needs to distribute source code with compiled?


Have you downloaded my Zip file and looked inside of it?there are 30+ files in there and only 1 is an .Exe. There is 20+ files that is the actual source code.

Now lets look at what you wrote:


The bottom line is being "Open Source" on Sourceforge and GPL, doesn't that mean that any distribution needs to distribute source code with compiled?


Open Source - It's all in the Zip file(in plain text as well as compiled)
GPL - General Public License, hmm anyone can download it and make changes to what every they want without getting permission to do so. We have not asked for any monies for licenses etc.
Distibution - Since SourceForge has had sevre CVS issues and the current Dev's didn't have access to commit the source (until a week or so ago) we placed it on a separate server.
Disribute source code with compiled - We do that exact thing, if you don't think we do then follow this link: http://www.dvolve.net/EQ/MySEQ

Then yopu can download all the previous versions, I've been involded with.

If you don't like the way we are handling the MySEQ project then don't visit and hassle us about it since CaveManBob has stated he supports what we are doing and Ratt is supportive in the way of making us Dev's and Moderators to the prroject.

The community has complained once in the way we are doing the job until you came here and posted because of Sony's Crackdown. And most posts I every read blamed MQ type programs and I never seen a post about SEQ type program outside the MQ site.

I value everyones opinion and thats why I created a poll about the executeable.

[Stogar]

Very true, making the EXE or making an automated way to make the EXE is essentially the same.

There's many different angles here, and the Windows version of SEQ has always been at the center of heated arguments.

If you look at the goal angle. What's the goal?

MQSEQ wants features added to EQ. I think he's up front on this, however this late in the game I doubt if it's realistic to think EQ will change all that much. They may use this to do something to future games.

Pre compiled. Well you've got lots of angles here.

There's the "spew the hacks to the masses and let god sort them out" camp. Where it's anything goes and this philosophy applies to any game anywhere, anytime.

There's the person who does it to gain "internet fame" for just being a distribution point and having lots of people know who they are. Maybe to get in with the elite crowd while only being pseudo-elite.

There's the honestly legit "let's help the players" camp. Naive IMO considering the numbers of people who abuse things handed to them.


Then the users. Let's not fool ourselves. Obviously they want and EXE because MOST cannot or will not be able to compile. If it's so simple for them to compile then why do so many cry about it when you bring up the point of releasing source only? Why is there a spike in help questions when asked to compile on their own?

Face it, the MySEQ project is MQSEQ2's project. This is a community of 1 active dev and a boatload of users. Honestly of late how much code is NOT MQSEQ2s?


And I am not ignorant to the fact that yes there are people who cannot compile on their own but are not in fact abusers. Posts like this make me feel like it's a waste of time to post because of the fact that there will be tons of people from the other side of the argument posting. The reason for this? Again let's not fool ourselves, most people arguing for a precompile are those that would not be using MySEQ without.


Maybe I've been around too long. I remember the days where people trying to figure out how to install Linux, then working out the network issues, then trying to DL SEQ from CVS, then compiling it seemed to lead to a sense of ownership in what they invested in making it work. Maybe I'm naive in thinking that that may have lead them to using it responsibly.

[Stogar]

MQSEQ2 - I was addressing xeerex's distribution. I'm sorry you had to write that long post based on y not being clear.

[MQSEQ2]

I know what you was addressing and MySEQ isn't my Project because if it was it would be called WinSEQ and I would be selling it for $50 a copy and have the software binary only connect to my server for Offset updates everytime they login.

But that's not what we are doing here. I just post alot here. This doesn't make me an elitest either since I just started programming in C# and anyone can develope here if they want. I'm using this project to give me something to do in RL.

If yor read the Forums you would notice that another user supplied the command line for how to compile the program and I worked with him in making the project able to do it via the command line.

Jag and Slart are also dev's who have been making changes in the past months. What you might not see is PMs where we talk about what we are working on (we don't do it alot but everything has been right on target for how we can improve the project). CMB is the main dev but his RL has prevented him from jumping in. I welcome anyone who wants to help develope and/or test the projects for the community. The problem with this community is if EQ's not broke then why visit the site until it's not working. So what I've been doing (as well as Jag and Slart) is to release newer version quicker vs. wait and add them all since merging features become harder. In 5 or 6 weeks there has been 14 releases which is approx 2 or 3 versions a week on avg (even tho they are slowing down now so I can get 2.x out).

Please download the Zip file take a look at to source and also look at the Compile.bat file and you will see we aren't doing anything tricky (which your not implying). What we are preventing is someone taking the project and making there own produst, which is what happened to the MQ project.

[jag111]

Just thought I'd poke my head in.

Arguments about distributing binaries are silly. It's an open source project and we distribute the source, done deal. What we include in addition doesn't matter. As for being hosted on SourceForge, as far as I know, the only thing being hosted on SourceForge are these boards.

Also, while I have contributed a fair amount of code to this project in the past couple months, I'm currently not actively developing anything. Mostly because it does everything I want it to do at the moment which results in me playing more and also because I've tried to stop working on the project when I'm being paid by my employer to work for them.

With that said, I'll probably get back into the code again once MYSEQ releases an initial version of the 2.0 server and client. No doubt it will benefit from eyes other than his looking at everything. There's also architectural benefits that can be made with the client and server both being C#. But I'll have to see how well the server performs first.

[Stogar]

xeerex wrote:



(1) Everyone who clicks is now a moron, including the name caller since I'm quite sure he has a mouse of some sort.

I said "every moron that can click" not everyone who clicks is a moron.


(2) If the "elitist" mentalilty really wants to prevail, then why in the hell do this on an open message board system? The only conclusion I can see is ego-centric.

Agreed, see my above post. I voice my opinions, but I think I am true to them. I use open source software. I add things to it, I modify things for my own use. I'm not a dev here and my contribution is limited to opinions.


In other words, if the devs were using it for personal gain only, then don't mention it ever on the Net. If the devs wanted to share it with a group, then use a private message board system.

I don't know. If I said something about personal gain I did not intent to imply that.


In reality, it "appears" to be an elitist mentality pure and simple. Its like "here...we can develop this but make your mouth drool since we can use it, but since we think you can't then you are not worthy."

Again I'm not a dev here but essentially that is my position, with the addition that I really think those "worthy" would be those who do indeed not take the hand out and work through it for themselves.


The hell of it is that you can say that you like the technical aspects of the program and all that other great non-sense, but in the end you are using a cheat for the game just like the rest of us.

Never once have I brought up any point about if I am using the program, or if I am cheating, or anything related. I am addressing the WAY it's used and not the use itself. I can say that I've never abused any of the tools available. I've also never distributed them modified or otherwise.


(3) I'd suggest those who quote the GPL actually go and read up on it. For convenience, here's the link http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html. Those who quote it should pay particular attention the first several paragraphs.

I was looking for someone who quoted GPL and couldn't find one. This does however, begin to address my very first question, do you need to simply distribute the source with the binary based on Sorceforge and GPL? I don't know and that's why I asked.


/em steps off his soapbox for the day.
I'm sorry I wasn't clear, my text sometimes doesn't carry the intent I have in mind. I didn't intend for you to have to defend your distribution in my original post. Nor did I intend for this to become a flame thread.

[SyberWired]

I am mostly just a lurker here, so I don't post that much. Myself and xeerex talk constantly about this and other projects though.

First off, it was mentioned that EQ will not change but future games will. The fact that Sony added a map to the UI, and that they made it where it can be "windowed" is proof that they are feeling the pressure and trying out what programs such as (your version here) SEQ, MySEQ, are doing.

And true that by making a self installer does "dumb it down" for the average joe-schmoo (no offense if that is someone's actual name) who can then use it without having to know the secret handshake. But this is how to get the average "J.S." interested in compiling, and programming, and packet sniffing, instead of just the smoke and mirrors of the game interface.

I started as a die-hard showeq user, and because of that learned linux, compiling, etc. Then because of the new interfaces, etc. got out of it. I started using myseq, due to friends comments about how great it is. Now I am learning about windows compiling, VS .Net, and other kewl stuff.

The bigger the user base, maybe the bigger an interest will be in the helpers and developers of this wonderful program.

[xeerex]

Stogar,

No flames intended my friend. I'm simply stating my opinions and observations just as others have. I can also respect your opinions as you are pretty straight-forward about them. If you chose to look at the source code of SEQ and post on this board while not using the program, then more power to you.:rolleyes:

My statements are mainly general in nature to the whole "SEQ is Linux and if you don't understand Linux then be off" attitude by some members. Unfortunately, these discussions do somewhat fall under the "Linux vs MS" war beat. Personally, I am in the middle the road on that one. I very much support the Linux and OS movement, but I also use Windows based programs on a daily basis out of necessity and because some of them do get the job done.



There's the honestly legit "let's help the players" camp. Naive IMO considering the numbers of people who abuse things handed to them.

That's my camp, and I assure you that I'm not naive. ;)

My entire reason for releasing the self-installers was precisely to make it easier for newbies to use. This reasoning falls in with Syber's statements, and a "show them the water and most will drink and not piss in it" attitude by me. Who knows what other creativity may surface if someone new becomes interested in this?

In closing here are some interesting quotes:


3.3 - If ShowEQ is on sourceforge.net, shouldn't the whole thing be open source?
Yes, and it is! A separate libEQ.a file is no longer required to make ShowEQ work. This file used to be closed source to prevent the propogation of a Windows version of ShowEQ. Recent changes in the philosophy of the project have made this open source as well and it is now integrated into the program itself instead of being an external library.


1.11 - I went to the Plane of Hate and saw an invisible mob called "ShowEQ Users Are Lame." Have any of you guys seen this?
Yes, we have and we think it is very funny. We are glad you got a chance to go up to hate and see the special content that is for ShowEQ users only. Be careful not to laugh about it in /gu or /shout or what not.

[MQSEQ2]

The more users using MySEQ only proves what Sony needs to do in game.

We have a in game map and MQ has proven they can draw spawns on the map. What Sony needs to do is this:

Non Traking class:
Draw spawns in a radius for what they can see in a FoV

Druids:
Draw the spawns in the general area that they can see via using the tracking options. Plus FoV distance based on Clipping.

Rangers:
Draw the spawns in the general area that they can see via using the tracking options. Plus FoV distance based on Clipping. Since rangers can see further in tracking they should have a larger radius.


Make some of this Plat/AA driven to buy mapping skills. Timers are easy to due and can be implemented very easy.

Theres alot of stuff that Sony could add to the game that folks would love to have these features in game. This wouldn't hurt the game play and some macro type thing for trade skills for the BS junk.

[MQSEQ2]

This subject has been talked about enough at this time and nothing new is being stated, so consider it discussed and no future posts on the subject should be brought up on it.