Ratt
01-11-2005, 03:02 PM
I know I've said we should be a "kinder, gentler SEQ." But this email chain is text book example of how not to ask for help. Names have been removed to protect the ... well ... I'm not sure what it's protecting.
Spelling mistakes are left intact and the chain is backwards, so read from the bottom up.
No, I'm not defensive. I'm tired of answering emails from people like you demanding that I do something. I run this project for free. I've never asked for any money; I do not get paid to do a single thing for this project. In fact, I've been running this project longer than you've been playing EverQuest. I get emails from people like you on a daily basis, and you're all the same. You want a hand out and you get mad and stomp your feet when I won't give it to you. For some strange reason, you think I owe you something. You think that I run this project as a business, and that the customer is always right.
Time for a wake up call, though. The customer is always wrong here at SEQ, unless proven otherwise. This is not because we are elitist assholes (even though some people are), it's simply out of necessity. It gets tiresome dealing with the same problems day in and day out. When you don't get paid to do it, it's even more of a hassle. On top of that giant hassle, the nature of the poject attracts morons and people who have no business using the program. People who can not or will not use the software responsibly. I don't want those people as "customers." The quickest and easiest way to eliminate a good portion of the undesirables is to NOT HELP THEM. If they can't figure it out themselves, then they are NOT the type of person that needs to be using ShowEQ to begin with. By their very nature in asking for help to figure out simple problems, they have demonstrated they can not or will not help themselves. Thus you have a self moderating and self correcting system.
Of course, you still get undesirables that you have to deal with manually. Normally, I would have ignored your email. However, your comment about the SEQ code versus the Forum code intrigued me and I decided to reply, if only to point out how wildly inaccurate yoru statements and and to inform you of the fact that we do not, indeed, need people who can't help themselves. Like many others, your tone and words indicate you think I owe you something, and every now and then I feel the desire to drive the point home that I owe you exactly NOTHING. I owe you no courtsey, I owe you no money and I owe you no product. You are simply one more person leeching the software from the project and returning nothing, and thus you have no positive influence on the project. The project exists because the developers wish it to exist, not because the users want it. If and when the time comes that all developers finally stop playing and/or lose interest in the project, the project will cease to be. It exists soley at the discrection of the developers and contributors. You are neither, and thus totally irrelevant to the project. It is possible that in time your "status" would change to someone who has a positive influence, but the fact is you have no positive influence and you send me an email demanding that I do something about a problem you are having.
So think about that for a moment before you continue reading. Where, exactly, do you get off demanding ANYTHING from me? What possible leg do you have to stand on for that? On top of that, you then go on to insult not only me, but the other developers who have put thousands of hours into the SEQ project. Now tell me again why you think I should lift a single finger to help you?
Lets list off the reasons to help you:
1.
Lets list off the reasons not to help you:
1. You contribute nothing to the project
2. You believe the SEQ project owes you something
3. You are demanding of peoples time (which is given without compensation)
4. You behave like an asshole
Well, we know which one is the short list, don't we?
As far as your other points go... While I do agree that it's possible for someone to "do seven high level languages," and "fifteen plus assembly languages." I very seriously doubt you are that someone. One does not "do" a language for starters. In addition to that, it's possible you've been "doing computers," for longer than I have, but again I very seriously doubt that whatever you've been "doing" with computers amounts to much more than clicking a mouse and downloading pr0n. Again, one does not "do" computers unless you are a (l)user. For you to have been "doing" computers longer than I, it would mean you had to start sometime in the early 70's on either a Hazletine or possibly a Timex Sinclair, because I'm sure the computers you are referring to are PC's and not a VAX, PDP or other sort of mainframe, which is pretty much the only way you'd have been "doing" computers longer than I have.
Now, as far as your specific problem goes, I'm in a pretty good mood at the moment, so I'll give you a few hints on how to resolve your issues.
First, lets analyze the problem itself. You've registered, but been unable to confirm your email address. So apparently, your first inclination was to create a new account instead of solving the problem. That is your first mistake and a good indicator of your lack of computer sophistication. Anyone with a good amount of experience with computers and anyone capable of "doing" 7 languages, and most assuredly anyone familiar with even one flavor of assembler would know that it's often much easier to solve a problem than potentially generate new ones.
But in either event, you found that trying to generate new problems for yourself was promptly identified and blocked by the system (as per the design to prevent multiple registrations under the same email address, duh). So your solution? To write to me and demand that I fix a problem you made for yourself.
Nice solution.
Now, what you probably should have done is stopped for a moment and thought about the problem from a logical point of view (which you would have done instinctively if you code in C++, COBOL and sure as hell if you work with ASM). What would be the most logical step to take after being blocked? Why, it just might be to look for a way to get the system to send you another registration confirmation email.
Now, I admit this part can be a little bit cryptic, but it's not rocket science and should be trivial for someone with your credentials. My first inclination, where I in your shoes, would be to change my email address in the User Control Panel. This would have solved your problem immediately. But lets pretend for a moment you only have one email address and thus couldn't receive the confirmation email at another address. What would be the logical thing to do? Change it, then change it right back to your original... and viola, problem solved.
So you see, XXXX, the problem could have been easily solved with a little bit of logical thinking. Because you were unable to resolve such a simple issue yourself and instead took to demanding that I solve it for you, I don't want or need you here.
So, in short, I suggest you just forget we ever had this conversation, take your beating and go home. I owe you nothing and you've compounded my dislike for you by lying or at best wildly exagerating your abilities and background to make yourself feel better. But let me leave you with a word of advice if you ever find yourself in a similar situation with the Open Source crowd: None of them get paid to help your sorry ass out. Be nice to them, you owe them, not the other way around. Treat them like your customers and you're a lot more likely to get favorable responses. Otherwise, you're going to end up the same situation again down the road... although I do admit you sure can pick 'em when it comes to riling your first OSP project leader.
On Tue, January 11, 2005 14:00, XXXXXX said:
> SHEESH! you are a bit defensve arent you? Runnin short of nose candy? As
> to the "script kiddie" comment., I've been doing compuers probably longer
> than you've beenout of diapers. I do seven high level languages, from COBOL
> to C++ and fifteen plus assembly languages. As for "screwing up,, my wife
> went to the hospital. I reaize that won't mean much to one whos main
> relationship is with their right hand. Some of us, however do have things
> that rate higher that replying to confirmation emails. I can understand
> from your reply that concept may be alien to you.
>
> Ikk try to explain it in terms simple enogh for your limited intellect.
> When I registered, i was sent an
> email. (Dont whine about it, try registering as a new user. See what
> happens) In order to complete the registration process, one must connect
> to a link in that email within a specified period. I didnt, when I tried, I
> wasnt accpeted because I had delayed too long. I attempted to register
> again and was informed that the account already existed. Do you notice a
> conflict here? The accout is not valid because it wasnt verified, but it
> cant be created because it already exixts.
>
> If this seems normal to you, then its all together possibe that most of
> the comments in your reply apply to yourself.
>
> Ive been on EQ for over five years now, I have no need for your
> software, cheating or otherwis (ohh thats right. theres not much otherwise
> with this code, is there?) I was just curious about it from a programming
> point of view.
>
> Like it or not, the "This is not an active email account" is the message
> I got. The email was (and is) an address
> that I've used since before EQ went to beta. If the message was a true
> reflection of the forum software's attempt to verify it, then it does need
> some work, XXXXX has a lot of users with similar accounts. I, as I suspect,
> it's a catchall to cover a number of possibilities, then its sloppy
> programming (forum software not ShowEQ) If you doubt what Im telling you,
> try it, if you can figure out how.
>
> Try not to get your panties in a bunch when someone tells you that you
> may have a flaw in your system. Software is like that, game cheats,
> editors, forum software, and even operating systems. Ask Bill Gates, he's
> had trouble for years with his stuff.
Ratt wrote:
>
>
>> I see, so you screwed up and you blame the software? Nice! Blame your
>> inadequacies on other people, how typical of people like you.
>>
>> First off, it's obvious you are either a liar or an idiot. You don't
>> "send a reply" for anything on the forums, so either you have no idea
>> what you are talking about or you're just too stupid to figure out
>> what's being asked of you. Either way, you're not the type of person
>> that even needs to be looking at the ShowEQ program, as it's for people
>> who can use it intelligently; obviously you can not, if you can't figure
>> out simple forum software.
>>
>> Please don't come back to the forums, we don't need your kind there.
>>
>>
>> PS - I don't take "orders" from wanna script kiddies like yourself, so
>> even if I wanted "clean this up," I wouldn't. This isn't a business, I
>> don't need nor do I want "customers." This forum is for the
>> technologically literate, not for the neophyte MMORGP players looking
>> to cheat.
>>
>> On Sun, January 9, 2005 11:28, XXXXXX said:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi, I registered, you sent me an email. Life happened, I didnt get
>>> the reply sent in a timely manner, when I sent it I was directed to
>>> your site on a page that said "this is not an active email accout"
>>> News to me :) Ive
>>> been using it for over 5 years now. I figured that it was because I
>>> was late with the reply. I tried to re register, I get "that email
>>> adress is already in use". Give me a break, If its not a valid email
>>> just how the *(^* can it be in use? I REALLY hope that the code you
>>> guys produce is a bit more consistant than the registration process.
>>> Please have
>>> your sysop clean this up, drop me a line when I can re register. If
>>> you cant fix it fromyour end, I really dont want to participate in any
>>> computer related enterprise with people of that level of expertise.
>>>
>>> my username is XXXX, My email is XXX@XXXX
Spelling mistakes are left intact and the chain is backwards, so read from the bottom up.
No, I'm not defensive. I'm tired of answering emails from people like you demanding that I do something. I run this project for free. I've never asked for any money; I do not get paid to do a single thing for this project. In fact, I've been running this project longer than you've been playing EverQuest. I get emails from people like you on a daily basis, and you're all the same. You want a hand out and you get mad and stomp your feet when I won't give it to you. For some strange reason, you think I owe you something. You think that I run this project as a business, and that the customer is always right.
Time for a wake up call, though. The customer is always wrong here at SEQ, unless proven otherwise. This is not because we are elitist assholes (even though some people are), it's simply out of necessity. It gets tiresome dealing with the same problems day in and day out. When you don't get paid to do it, it's even more of a hassle. On top of that giant hassle, the nature of the poject attracts morons and people who have no business using the program. People who can not or will not use the software responsibly. I don't want those people as "customers." The quickest and easiest way to eliminate a good portion of the undesirables is to NOT HELP THEM. If they can't figure it out themselves, then they are NOT the type of person that needs to be using ShowEQ to begin with. By their very nature in asking for help to figure out simple problems, they have demonstrated they can not or will not help themselves. Thus you have a self moderating and self correcting system.
Of course, you still get undesirables that you have to deal with manually. Normally, I would have ignored your email. However, your comment about the SEQ code versus the Forum code intrigued me and I decided to reply, if only to point out how wildly inaccurate yoru statements and and to inform you of the fact that we do not, indeed, need people who can't help themselves. Like many others, your tone and words indicate you think I owe you something, and every now and then I feel the desire to drive the point home that I owe you exactly NOTHING. I owe you no courtsey, I owe you no money and I owe you no product. You are simply one more person leeching the software from the project and returning nothing, and thus you have no positive influence on the project. The project exists because the developers wish it to exist, not because the users want it. If and when the time comes that all developers finally stop playing and/or lose interest in the project, the project will cease to be. It exists soley at the discrection of the developers and contributors. You are neither, and thus totally irrelevant to the project. It is possible that in time your "status" would change to someone who has a positive influence, but the fact is you have no positive influence and you send me an email demanding that I do something about a problem you are having.
So think about that for a moment before you continue reading. Where, exactly, do you get off demanding ANYTHING from me? What possible leg do you have to stand on for that? On top of that, you then go on to insult not only me, but the other developers who have put thousands of hours into the SEQ project. Now tell me again why you think I should lift a single finger to help you?
Lets list off the reasons to help you:
1.
Lets list off the reasons not to help you:
1. You contribute nothing to the project
2. You believe the SEQ project owes you something
3. You are demanding of peoples time (which is given without compensation)
4. You behave like an asshole
Well, we know which one is the short list, don't we?
As far as your other points go... While I do agree that it's possible for someone to "do seven high level languages," and "fifteen plus assembly languages." I very seriously doubt you are that someone. One does not "do" a language for starters. In addition to that, it's possible you've been "doing computers," for longer than I have, but again I very seriously doubt that whatever you've been "doing" with computers amounts to much more than clicking a mouse and downloading pr0n. Again, one does not "do" computers unless you are a (l)user. For you to have been "doing" computers longer than I, it would mean you had to start sometime in the early 70's on either a Hazletine or possibly a Timex Sinclair, because I'm sure the computers you are referring to are PC's and not a VAX, PDP or other sort of mainframe, which is pretty much the only way you'd have been "doing" computers longer than I have.
Now, as far as your specific problem goes, I'm in a pretty good mood at the moment, so I'll give you a few hints on how to resolve your issues.
First, lets analyze the problem itself. You've registered, but been unable to confirm your email address. So apparently, your first inclination was to create a new account instead of solving the problem. That is your first mistake and a good indicator of your lack of computer sophistication. Anyone with a good amount of experience with computers and anyone capable of "doing" 7 languages, and most assuredly anyone familiar with even one flavor of assembler would know that it's often much easier to solve a problem than potentially generate new ones.
But in either event, you found that trying to generate new problems for yourself was promptly identified and blocked by the system (as per the design to prevent multiple registrations under the same email address, duh). So your solution? To write to me and demand that I fix a problem you made for yourself.
Nice solution.
Now, what you probably should have done is stopped for a moment and thought about the problem from a logical point of view (which you would have done instinctively if you code in C++, COBOL and sure as hell if you work with ASM). What would be the most logical step to take after being blocked? Why, it just might be to look for a way to get the system to send you another registration confirmation email.
Now, I admit this part can be a little bit cryptic, but it's not rocket science and should be trivial for someone with your credentials. My first inclination, where I in your shoes, would be to change my email address in the User Control Panel. This would have solved your problem immediately. But lets pretend for a moment you only have one email address and thus couldn't receive the confirmation email at another address. What would be the logical thing to do? Change it, then change it right back to your original... and viola, problem solved.
So you see, XXXX, the problem could have been easily solved with a little bit of logical thinking. Because you were unable to resolve such a simple issue yourself and instead took to demanding that I solve it for you, I don't want or need you here.
So, in short, I suggest you just forget we ever had this conversation, take your beating and go home. I owe you nothing and you've compounded my dislike for you by lying or at best wildly exagerating your abilities and background to make yourself feel better. But let me leave you with a word of advice if you ever find yourself in a similar situation with the Open Source crowd: None of them get paid to help your sorry ass out. Be nice to them, you owe them, not the other way around. Treat them like your customers and you're a lot more likely to get favorable responses. Otherwise, you're going to end up the same situation again down the road... although I do admit you sure can pick 'em when it comes to riling your first OSP project leader.
On Tue, January 11, 2005 14:00, XXXXXX said:
> SHEESH! you are a bit defensve arent you? Runnin short of nose candy? As
> to the "script kiddie" comment., I've been doing compuers probably longer
> than you've beenout of diapers. I do seven high level languages, from COBOL
> to C++ and fifteen plus assembly languages. As for "screwing up,, my wife
> went to the hospital. I reaize that won't mean much to one whos main
> relationship is with their right hand. Some of us, however do have things
> that rate higher that replying to confirmation emails. I can understand
> from your reply that concept may be alien to you.
>
> Ikk try to explain it in terms simple enogh for your limited intellect.
> When I registered, i was sent an
> email. (Dont whine about it, try registering as a new user. See what
> happens) In order to complete the registration process, one must connect
> to a link in that email within a specified period. I didnt, when I tried, I
> wasnt accpeted because I had delayed too long. I attempted to register
> again and was informed that the account already existed. Do you notice a
> conflict here? The accout is not valid because it wasnt verified, but it
> cant be created because it already exixts.
>
> If this seems normal to you, then its all together possibe that most of
> the comments in your reply apply to yourself.
>
> Ive been on EQ for over five years now, I have no need for your
> software, cheating or otherwis (ohh thats right. theres not much otherwise
> with this code, is there?) I was just curious about it from a programming
> point of view.
>
> Like it or not, the "This is not an active email account" is the message
> I got. The email was (and is) an address
> that I've used since before EQ went to beta. If the message was a true
> reflection of the forum software's attempt to verify it, then it does need
> some work, XXXXX has a lot of users with similar accounts. I, as I suspect,
> it's a catchall to cover a number of possibilities, then its sloppy
> programming (forum software not ShowEQ) If you doubt what Im telling you,
> try it, if you can figure out how.
>
> Try not to get your panties in a bunch when someone tells you that you
> may have a flaw in your system. Software is like that, game cheats,
> editors, forum software, and even operating systems. Ask Bill Gates, he's
> had trouble for years with his stuff.
Ratt wrote:
>
>
>> I see, so you screwed up and you blame the software? Nice! Blame your
>> inadequacies on other people, how typical of people like you.
>>
>> First off, it's obvious you are either a liar or an idiot. You don't
>> "send a reply" for anything on the forums, so either you have no idea
>> what you are talking about or you're just too stupid to figure out
>> what's being asked of you. Either way, you're not the type of person
>> that even needs to be looking at the ShowEQ program, as it's for people
>> who can use it intelligently; obviously you can not, if you can't figure
>> out simple forum software.
>>
>> Please don't come back to the forums, we don't need your kind there.
>>
>>
>> PS - I don't take "orders" from wanna script kiddies like yourself, so
>> even if I wanted "clean this up," I wouldn't. This isn't a business, I
>> don't need nor do I want "customers." This forum is for the
>> technologically literate, not for the neophyte MMORGP players looking
>> to cheat.
>>
>> On Sun, January 9, 2005 11:28, XXXXXX said:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Hi, I registered, you sent me an email. Life happened, I didnt get
>>> the reply sent in a timely manner, when I sent it I was directed to
>>> your site on a page that said "this is not an active email accout"
>>> News to me :) Ive
>>> been using it for over 5 years now. I figured that it was because I
>>> was late with the reply. I tried to re register, I get "that email
>>> adress is already in use". Give me a break, If its not a valid email
>>> just how the *(^* can it be in use? I REALLY hope that the code you
>>> guys produce is a bit more consistant than the registration process.
>>> Please have
>>> your sysop clean this up, drop me a line when I can re register. If
>>> you cant fix it fromyour end, I really dont want to participate in any
>>> computer related enterprise with people of that level of expertise.
>>>
>>> my username is XXXX, My email is XXX@XXXX