Filters?

[Pendragon]

Server and client working fine. No mobs showing up and I can't find anything in the help areas on the forums about this.

I notice the filters folder is empty. Gonna guess I need the fitlers for the zones
to see the mobs. Where do I get the MYSEQ filters? Can't seem to find this info.

Thanks!

[Seaxouri]

The filters are, from what I understand, used to tag specially named mobs in the zone. They should appear in the spawnlist (F8) regardless of whether or not they are in a filter list. The filter list should just highlight them and move them to the top of the spawnlist (it also highlights the spawn on the map).

The bad news is that there do not appear to be any filters stored in the repository, so none are shipped.

The good news is that BlueAdept has some filters we can use. Once I understand more what needs to be done, I will release a client with the updated filters. You have been the first to ask for them that I know of.

I have been spending the last two weeks re-writing the server in cpp, which is near complete. I just need to add my new debug stuff back into it. This will allow me to add a new communications mode to the server which will speed up communications between client and server.

If you are not seeing spawns, it is most likely because you either
1) do not have the latest offsets (check the help forum for the 12/15 offsets)
2) do not have the maps (read the stickies in the help forum)

[BlueAdept]

The filters used to be included with it. That was long ago though when CMB was working on it.

It used to be one file called something like filters.txt. All the mobs were one right after the other. I forget how they were separated. If there is a directory for them, it may have changed since I last looked at it.

If anyone wants to take a little time to show me how it needs to be formated to get it to alert, I will convert the filters for MySEQ.

[Pendragon]

charassis.txt in /filters dir

# Include # on every line that is not a filter
# Be sure to only have up to 1 extra space at the end
#
#
# Hunt will put a yellow circle around the mob
[hunt]
#
#
# Caution will draw an flashing line to the target (traps etc)
[caution]
An Iksar Apparition
Gandan Tailfist
Ghost of Mera
Venril Sathir
#
#
# Rare will draw a flashing white circle around the mob
[rare]
A Howling Spectre
Drusella Sathir
Embalming Fluid
Mortiferous Protector
Reanimated Plaguebone
Sentient Bile
Skeletal Procurator
The Crypt Devourer
The Crypt Excavator
The Crypt Feaster
The Crypt Keeper
The Crypt Spectre
The Crypt Wurm
The Golem Master
The Skeleton Sepulcher
The Spectre Sepulcher
The Spectre Spirtualist
The Undertaker Lord

[BlueAdept]

Wow they did change it. That is the ShowEQ 4.xx format. You can find them here http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/seq/filters-4xx-06-20-05.tar.gz?download I had updated the 4.xx to the same as the 5.xx so if they work, you would be current (up to dodh. I havent done them yet).

They should work. The only thing I don't know is if the spawns with # will work or not.

[Seaxouri]

Back on version 1.10, CMB shipped a file called filters.conf, which was a long list of mob names. The individual zone filter feature did not exist. This was April 2003.

On version 1.15, there was no filters.conf file shipped. There also does not appear to be the filters.cs source file (c-sharp). This was February 2004.

On version 1.17, the last version I have before the MySEQ2 fiasco, there was a filters.cs soruce file, but still no filters.conf file. The client creates a 'template' file in the 'filters' subfolder, but it always starts life empty.

I think you may be confusing the filters being shipped with the release 2 folks' version of MySEQ. Other than 1.10, and maybe 1.11-1.14, although I do not have those, at least since 1.15 the 'filters' have started life (ie: a fresh install) empty.

There IS some sort of logic to determine what is a 'named' mob, however. I just need to spend some time looking at the client source to understand how that works. The current client will highlight certain mobs in the zone, even though there is no filter file for that zone. If you attempt to edit the alert filter for a zone, and there is no filter file, the client creates one, and then allows you to edit it.

Other than the 'smart mob algorithm', there have been no filters shipped for almost three years. Starting with 1.17, and maybe 1.16, there is the ability to add per-zone filters, which follow the format described above by Pendragon, although the file he is showing was not in any official release (at least not from the release 1 line).

The next client we release will contain the appropriate filter files, as long as they are not too large. I would like to ship the map files as well, but even zipped that comes to 11M, which seems too large to me.

Blue, if you can port the existing 5.xx files to the above format, that would be easiest, since I won't need to change the client source to read XML. I will then check the files into CVS and add them to the official release. It looks like they crunch to less than 35K, so that is no biggie.

[BlueAdept]

Back on version 1.10, CMB shipped a file called filters.conf, which was a long list of mob names. The individual zone filter feature did not exist. This was April 2003.

Yea that is probably the version I was familiar with. I wasn't aware they made individual zone filters. I had suggested it, but I never knew they actually did it.

SEQ 4.xx filters were text files just like the one listed for MySEQ. To make the 5.xx fitlers, I use a conversion program which makes it xml.

If the SEQ 4.xx fitlers I linked above work, then people can just use them until I make a package for them.

I don't suggest including the fitlers with the program. The reason being is that if a person modifies them to find a specific mob that they want, when they extract the new program, it might overwrite their modified file if they aren't careful.

As for maps, unfortunately you have to be careful that none of the maps are copywrited. The maps in the cvs all had the artists permission to be used. It hasn't been updated because most people just use mapfiend.


PS: I need someone to try the 4.xx filters with MySEQ. Let me know if they work and to let me know if spawns with a # work with it.

[Seaxouri]

You bring up a good point with the copyright stuff. I can't include the filters unless you allow me to add the GPL info to them.. at least one line.

As a matter of fact, they are not allowed to reside on sourceforge otherwise. If you read the agreement on being a project admin, you will see that you need to pick a license for your project, and since MySEQ is a subproject under ShowEQ, and ShowEQ is tagged as a GPL project, all code under the ShowEQ project MUST be GPL. If it is not, you need to get it out of sourceforge, since it is a violation of the agreement.

The clobbering issue is a good one. I would probably do a solution like having 'base' filters and 'custom' filters, with different names. Mob name collisions would be resolved on a priority basis.

I do not know what the copyright status of the maps are.. thats a good point. It seems odd they would generate SEQ format maps and not allow SEQ use them, or any derivative tool of SEQ, like MySEQ. The maps aer too big for me to even consider it though. I do not want to bog down SF resources when they are freely available from a users own machine or mapfiend.

On the other hand, I don't want to scare folks off by making them get pieces of the tool from everywhere. Right now there is a server, a client, maps, filters and offsets. That's five different pieces to make one tool work, each their own download. Bringing the filters into the client will help, imho.

[BlueAdept]

Yes I made them GPL when I introduced them into the file section of SF. I haven't put a statement in each filter file yet. It is on my list to do. I also have to do dodh still.

The maps in the file section were all GPLed. I forget who, but someone asked the people who made them and they gave permission to GPL them. The ones on Mapfiend may have copywrite issues so I suggest that they not be included. The maps in the file section are old and I think only go up to velious.

Just because someone creates a map for ShowEQ, it doens't mean it is GPLed. You can write programs or software that are associated with a GPL program. Look at sony. They wrote that root kit that used Lame's Mpeg compression GPLed DLL. Where sony got in trouble (along with other trouble) was that they didn't distribute the source nor give credit to the makers of Lame.

[Seaxouri]

You can make maps that work with a GPL tool, and the maps do not fall under GPL rules, that is correct.

However, if those maps are stored on Sourceforge.net, either in CVS or in their public download area, *that* stuff must be GPL (or other OSI-approved lic). See section 6 of the 'SF Terms of Use' for details.
http://sourceforge.net/docs/H01/en

So sure, someone can make maps/filters and not GPL them, you just cannot store them on SF unless they are GPL, which was my point.

If someone makes a library that is GPL, and you dynamically or statically link to it, then your code has to be GPL as well. In some cases, some libraries use LGPL, or Lesser GPL, which allows you to dynamically link with those libraries and not fall under GPL or LGPL rules. However if you statically link with an LGPL library, you will be liable to provide source if asked to.

Since maps, filters, etc, are not object code, but rather 'input' files, they are not bound by the rules of GPL.. since the tool can essentially run without them... or more importantly be re-built without them.

For anyone who has actually taken the time to read the GPL information, you will read in there, and they state this almost literally, that the general idea is "if there is a bug in some part of the code, and a fix is made available to secure that bug, than any code that included that buggy code must be able to be rebuilt with the fixed code". In the case of maps/filters, the server and client can both be re-built independent of the actual binary, so they do not fall under the GPL 'binding' part of the license. By adding GPL to maps/filters, etc, tho, you do give up the rights to come back later and demand royalties for usage. That's where the MP3 issues came in. The algorithm was given to the public, but never GPLd. OGG is GPL/BSD tho, and, imho, should eventually kill MP3 dead. The whole MP3 thing was slimy, imho... it seems odd that a patented technology would become part of an international standard. Someone screwed up.

[purple]

By adding GPL to maps/filters, etc, tho, you do give up the rights to come back later and demand royalties for usage.

I can demand royalties for any of my GPLed code if I wanted to. Of course you'd be stupid to pay me because it is also available for free, assuming you abide by the conditions of the license I released under. But there are companies who make money selling off GPLed code and they aren't inherently violating the license unless they don't distribute the source, including any changes they may have made improving or modifying the codebase (which may involve freeing their IP if they've made important or interesting changes).

But my distributing my work under the GPL doesn't effect at all the fact that I still own the copyright on my work, unless I intentionally and knowingly assign away that copyright to someone else. I can distribute it under whatever other license I want and it would be your choice as the user which license you were receiving my work under and as long as you abide by the license or licenses I choose, then I can do nothing about it.

The GPL isn't the solution to all the worlds problems. It's just a license, and can help acheive some goals if it is appropriate. As the author, you carry the cards and you choose how people can take advantage of your work.

But anyways, BA is well within his rights to both release a GPLed version of his filters and also resell them to Random Company B under a totally different license if he so chooses (not that he wants to of course).. He created the filters. He owns the copyright and can choose whatever model for distribution he wants.

[BlueAdept]

Well we kind of strayed from the original point of this.

I think including maps and fitlers in the package for MySEQ is not a good idea. They should be separate so that modified files don't get overwritten during an install. If I add new filters, I wouldn't have to release a new MySEQ package. I can just distribute a new filter package.

As for maps, unless someone creates some new maps and makes them freeware or gpl, I don't think we can distribute them here.

I will add a GPL statement to the filters. I did state when I moved them back that they are GPL now but they currently do not include that in the header.

I will make a package just for MySEQ. I just need input from someone to make sure the ShowEQ 4.xx ones work with MySEQ (including the spawns with the #s).

[Seaxouri]

<derail>
If you create a piece of code, you may wish to ship it off in three different directions, like this:
1) To a friend for free, who has full permissions to do what they want
2) To a company for $10K, who have full permissions to do what they want
3) To an open source project, who have full permissions to do what they want

Under #1 and #2, you could also place a royalty restriction on the software, whereby you get paid $1 for every entity sold that uses your code.
If #3 was a SF project that was under GPL, and the project admin accepted your code, then, adhering to SF requirements, bound the code under GPL, then that version of the code you *cannot* demand royalties for.

Let's then assume that the GPL flavor of the code is downloaded by 1,000 users worldwide.
The company in #2 above cannot come back and demand royalties from those 1,000 users that obtained your code via GPL. Nor can you, or your friend who you gave the code to in #1 above.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowRequireFee


Of course the company can take your code, modify it, apply their own license/royalty restrictions and whomever obtains *that* code is bound to the company's rules. Likewise the open source community cannot come back and demand that the company provide the source code for their changes, since the original code was provided to them as non-GPL.

So when I say you give up the rights to demand royalties, I meant for *that branch* of distribution. Of course you can still sell other branches with whatever royalties/rules you like, you just cannot come back and demand royalties from folks who obtained the code from the #3 branch.

Large companies do this all the time.. they 'release' an open source version of their code into 'open source territory', but keep an in-house version for themselves, which they may alter for security reasons.

For anyone interested, it would be good to read all those FAQs in the link I provided above. There are a lot of good ones in there. One in particular, with reference to my example above, you could not sell an 'exclusive use' license to the company in #2, because they also granted an open-source version in #3. Most companies that buy code would probably require exclusive use, and if you sold it to them under those conditions, and they later found out that you had previously released the same code to someone else, you could be in big trouble. The same idea goes if you tried to sell the code to two different, competing companies, and each found out you sold the rights to the other.
</derail>

[Pendragon]

Maybe make a forum for filters / maps ? There are alot of ppl who use this program who make their own filters / maps with named locations, etc. Example is that Charassis filter I posted which I made.

Just put standard disclaimer, if they're posted there, then it's FFA or whatever.

[BlueAdept]

charassis.txt in /filters dir

# Include # on every line that is not a filter
# Be sure to only have up to 1 extra space at the end
#
#
# Hunt will put a yellow circle around the mob
[hunt]
#
#
# Caution will draw an flashing line to the target (traps etc)
[caution]
An Iksar Apparition
Gandan Tailfist
Ghost of Mera
Venril Sathir
#
#
# Rare will draw a flashing white circle around the mob
[rare]
A Howling Spectre
Drusella Sathir
Embalming Fluid
Mortiferous Protector
Reanimated Plaguebone
Sentient Bile
Skeletal Procurator
The Crypt Devourer
The Crypt Excavator
The Crypt Feaster
The Crypt Keeper
The Crypt Spectre
The Crypt Wurm
The Golem Master
The Skeleton Sepulcher
The Spectre Sepulcher
The Spectre Spirtualist
The Undertaker Lord

I actually took 5 minutes and found that my filters wont work without modification.

I should have mine converted over by monday.

[Seaxouri]

Don't bother yet.

I have added a bunch of new things to the client already. I will be testing it for a few days and then releasing it next week.

One of the things I just changed was the filters. I extracted the 4.xx filters as-is and modified the client to read them. Also, I changed the algorithm so that files with names like "filters_befallen.conf" are the 'default' files, but a user can create their own filter files, and they will be created as "custom_befallen.conf", also in the filters subfolder. The default ones are loaded first, followed by the custom ones. Actually, the global file (now called custom_global.conf) is loaded first, then the zone-default file, then the zone-custom file. This will avoid collisions with people updating their filter settings on their own system. I could also easily add an option to 'ignore the default alert files', but I would like to see how this goes for now.

I added in two new mapping features. One I call dynamic alpha filtering. basically, the further you are from a line on the map, the more faded it appears. Lines near you have full alpha, and are not faded. This basically highlights a 3D sphere around you as you move around the zone. Also, I never blank out a line.. all lines are draw.. just a lot are heavily faded... unless you move close to them.

The other feature is 'force black lines'. Some maps have color info in them. Enabling this option will force all lines to be painted black, regardless of their color info in the map file.

There was also a bug with saving prefs. Once you opened a map, prefs got saved in the wrong place, and appeared like they were not being saved. Now we save prefs overtop of the same file we loaded them from.

I also fixed the bug with the depth filtering and SEQ maps. Before, the z-axis was inverted and the depth filter would remove the wrong area of the map. This is fixed now.

[BlueAdept]

Cool your the man.

Ill hold off on them.

[Pendragon]

Seax, those options sound very nice. Any chance you may consider adding the ability to right click on a mob name and add it to the filters file as a rare etc ?

[Seaxouri]

At this point, that seems like a low priority item to me.

Right now, to add a filter, someone just does the following:
1) Press F7
2) Add the mob's name to the desired section
3) Close and save the file
4) Press F6

This takes about 10 seconds to do, and is not done that often, imho.

I have also re-written the server in cpp, but have not checked any code in yet. Things that are more important to me right now are:
1) improving the offset finding/debug stuff
2) reducing the network traffic (right now we transfer the complete set of spawn information 4 times a second. It seems a waste to keep sending certain information across, like race/class/level/etc for each and every spawn)
3) the dreaded spawnID problem. I still have not been able to lock onto where the spawnID lives. My hackaround looks good, but causes problems in zones where mobs are killed frequently, like farming zones. Right now the spawn is tied to a pointer value, which is technically incorrect, since spawns at certain pointers change (in a linked list). Unless there is a unique ID in the spawn structure (which I am fearing might be gone now), I am going to have to come up with a method for assigning spawn IDs to mobs.
4) the filter code in the client looks like it can be improved. there are a lot of inefficient methods being used throught the client, imho.
5) remove the requirement to use the magic dlls

There are others, but I am not sure how much time I will be able to devote to doing them. I also do not have a good idea of how many people are using this version of the tool. I know the v2 folks boast 75,000 users or so, and I can only see under 300 users have downloaded this version, so that is a bit disheartening. I have tried to post on the v2 forums that this version is available, but the guys over there delete my posts with 15 mins of me putting it up there. What I really would like is more people spreading the word that there IS still another version, that it works, and is free.

The v2 (well.. now v3) folks just got a working copy of v3 functional on 1/1/06. Of course you need to be a donator to get it. I offered my help to get their stuff working, and they refused it. I get the impression that they really do not like having v1 around. It is obvious they are making money from both website hits (they have ads on their forums) and the straight donation requirement. Every user that migrates over to this version eats into their wallets.

[BlueAdept]

The v2 (well.. now v3) folks just got a working copy of v3 functional on 1/1/06. Of course you need to be a donator to get it. I offered my help to get their stuff working, and they refused it. I get the impression that they really do not like having v1 around. It is obvious they are making money from both website hits (they have ads on their forums) and the straight donation requirement. Every user that migrates over to this version eats into their wallets.

Of course it bugs them. They don't want it around because they ILLEGALLY took the source and made it a closed source project along with all the other sleezy stuff they have done. They were probably afraid that you might steal some of their code for the Real MySEQ.

I am glad that someone re-revived this project, even if I use ShowEQ.