ShowEq and Rare Spawns

[SagoS]

Personally I think that showeq is a great tool, so long as it is not abused. I've noticed many people that are using it to find all the rare mobs and kill them as soon as they spawn for the loot. These people should be banned from everquest, as they are having a major effect on other players and the game and are actually cheating at the game. I use showeq mostly for the maps to keep from getting lost is some dungeons while being chased by tons of mobs, or to avoid those lvl 60+ mobs that just love to wonder around an open zone. But using the maps can also be considered cheating, and I believe it is too, but it does not have any effect on other players.

Just my thoughts about some ShowEq users.

[RSB]

That is nice. But I'm sure if you where in a zone looking for a particular mob you wouldn't go "Oh there is that mob I need but I'll pretend not to see it and look for it in game". I agree that farmers suck but SEQ is great to pop into a zone and go "hmm the mob I need isn't up I'll come back later"

And by you not dieing you are depriving clerics everywhere from a income from rezing you butt. 8)

I cheat, I admit it...but EQ is holding on to my attention with a thread. I use it mostly to pick out those mobs that will give me xp but are low level. I hate selling, maybe if I didn't I'd try to farm rares too.

RSB

[Cable]

"But using the maps can also be considered cheating, and I believe it is too, but it does not have any effect on other players."

How in any reality can you consider this cheating? HELLO!??!!? What kind of adventurer would not take the time to jot down important areas... Man just from the RP aspect of the game you should be laughed at...

[SagoS]

The maps ARE cheating because you can see mobs, their level, class, and held loot. I consider it cheating because it can give you an advantage over other players. And popping in a zone checking for a certain mob is bad, but not nearly as bad as the people who go to random zones and kill all of the rare spawns. Also I'm sure clerics are VERY happy they don't have to rez me all the time because I never have any pp on me and they don't tend to get much out of it =)

[Pyzjn]

Well I do use ShowEQ for getting rare's sometimes. I only get to play an hour or two a day 3 days a week. I play a paladin that has nearly made it to level 40 after many months of playing. I did the quest to get my ghoulbane and that took me many many hours even with ShowEQ to let me know where the mobs are that I am looking for. Without ShowEQ I probably still wouldnt have completed this quest. For us casual players ShowEQ is almost essential otherwise we would be hopelessly inequiped pretty quickly.

Maybe Star Wars Galaxies will provide a better pay experience for us casual players ( as they promise) and ShowSWG wont be needed. Until then Ill be using ShowEQ just to keep up with everyone else.

[crazdefool]

your slow i got a 40 sk in a week

[Pyzjn]

What in 6 hours!!!!!. I did say I get to play about 6 hours a week.

[BlueAdept]

Originally posted by SagoS
The maps ARE cheating because you can see mobs, their level, class, and held loot. I consider it cheating because it can give you an advantage over other players.

Well then I guess we should ban every Druid, Ranger and Bard because they can see the mobs, maps, level, and class too.

I also guess that we should ban everyone who uses eqatlas or gets information on how to do the quests from everlore....

Get real.

There are only a very few mobs that have anything of intrest in their hands.

[high_jeeves]

ShowEQ is cheating. End of Story. Anyone who claims it isnt is simply trying to rationalize, so they dont feel guilty.

From dictionary.com:

'cheat: To violate rules deliberately, as in a game'

Could it be more clear cut than that? ShowEQ clearly violates the rules, and is therefore cheating.

--Jeeves

[Natasone]

Originally posted by high_jeeves
ShowEQ is cheating. End of Story. Anyone who claims it isnt is simply trying to rationalize, so they dont feel guilty.



/couldnt agree more. There are no lesser or greater evils to it.

"I only use it for the maps" Cheating. Knowing where you are in a area and in relation to mobs you DONT want to run into is just the same as using it to run into the mobs you DO want to run into.

"I could see them on eqatlas." Yeah, but looking at a website isnt breaking the EULA is it?

Personally, I use it to see what mobs are giving the best xp, the maps, and on occasion, I will kill a rare with it, but I don't camp rares with it. I have other things to do rather than sit in a zone where I can not make xp and wait for a beep to go kill something.

So, in closeing....I cheat.
Does it hurt anyone? No.
Does it delay them from getting/doing something? Sometimes.
Do they get it sooner or later? Probably.

Natas

[Gungadin]

He he, can someone tell me how you use sew to CAMP rare spawns?
I can see you using it to navigate it to the spawn spot required, but then camping is camping, sit and wait, seq not making much difference there. If you wander off and rely on seq to tell you when the spawn is up, then anyone else is free to move in and camp in the meantime, so you not really depriving anyone of anything there.
As for randomly spawning rares(ie quillmane) you have an advantage over non seq people in that you will know the spawn is up before most other people, unless they are tracking and in range. But this is hardly camping, and there is still a chance that they will stumble or track their way to the spawn before you, so they are not denied a chance at the spawn, just less time to get to it after it spawns.
So yes it is breaking the everquest rules (i think just playing everquest is breaking their rules so no shock there).
Is it wrong? well, that's a decision up to each person, dependant on how they use the information seq gives them.

[RSB]

Gungadin I think you are getting to technical...oh wait most of us are computer geeks....never mind.

BlueAdept - do you believe Clinton didn't have sex too?
Those classes are given those abilities and they are still not as good as what SEQ gives them.

Maps are not illegal by Verants own definition as they don't give one player a distinct advantage over another. Any player is allowed to download/printout/lookat on another computer a map. I even wrote (before I got SEQ) a program to run on my 486 that everytime I hit /loc it would show my positon and direction on a map from EQAtlas. Verant says that real time parsing of the log file is not illegal as any player can do this because it is only giving you information you have access to in game. SEQ intercepts the datastream and exposes alot more than that.

I don't need to know that Quillimaine has the cloak to make me run over and kill him/her. I do it just incase anyway. (Oh BTW I don't sell the cloaks I MQ them with mages for free....god I hate selling). Do I concider it cheating? Hell yea. I've just deprived some level 35 of a cloak, do I feel bad? Nah not really. What they don't know doesn't really hurt them, hell I may have saved them from a death! hehehe

RSB

[SagoS]

I agree RSB, and the fact that someone would say that the druid/ranger track ability can "reveal maps, show classes and exact levels, show loot, and all the crap" is more than showing everyone that you either have played everquest once or twice and gave up, or you just may have some *problems* in your mental memory/understanding, especially if you have been playing the game for a while.

Many thanks to all who agree with me in realizing that showeq IS a cheat, but just so long as it isn't used in a way that it will have major negative impacts on other players, its not all that bad of a prog. Many thanks to those who made it - and for keeping it strictly linux to limit the number of users.

[fryfrog]

i'll just pipe in and say it is definatly cheating :)

that being said, as with everything there is the good and the bad. i know that i try my best to use it in a good way, as well as for good. these are some things you can do with showeq that (while cheating) are definatly good...

1.) not get lost. not get your group lost. not get your guild lost. the very act of not getting lost does far to much to list i'm sure. it saves you (and usually others) time. it might prevent you (and others) from getting killed. and thats just the quick things i thought of :)

2.) finding corpses. is someone's body stuck in the wall? did they die in spot A and their body warped to spot B? did that poor newb not get a /loc before he died? heck, maybe you died and didn't exactly know where...

3.) finding rares. while this can be abused, it can also be helpful. i know there have been many times when i have located and helped find a rare FOR SOMEONE ELSE! (usually playing a druid with track as a cover). if you get that rare first, and are going to use it for good (maybe help some mage mq his epic, since quillmane is a fucking tracked mob for a non-tracking class epic) than maybe its okay.

4.) help you time buffs. this is one that i really can't even see the HARM to others in. you could pretty easily do the same thing with an egg timer if you wanted. i bet some of the people i group with like that they don't have to keep asking for SHoW or HB or Symbol.

the real bottom line for ShowEQ users (and Excalibar/Odinseye users) is to not use it for evil. setting up linux and getting all this stuff is a pretty big hurdle. i'd be willing to bet that it stops a fair number of the people who would use these tools for evil. i would wager that a majority of linux users are more responsible, more intelligent, faster learning and all around less evil than other computer users. linux is basically the anti-microsoft (or anti-evil?) anyway...

ps, what the HECK is up with that major instability of hackersquest.org?

[RSB]

Use it for evil.

Feel the POWER of the Darkside!

oh sorry lost it for a minute.
RSB

[crazdefool]

crazdefool says "Hi, Im an SEQ user and im addicted. "
randomsequser01 says "Welcome to SEQ Anon."

Yes it is cheating, no dont feel bad about it. If nobody cheated half the game content would go un-explored. We are charting new terrirory! We are like explorers! If it weren't for us who would do all those insane crazy things!

A wise man once said "Its only cheating if you get caught"

Crazdefool

[BlueAdept]

I never said it wasnt cheating, but I dont think it provides THAT much of an advantage over other people.

I would say that most people who use SEQ dont really care too much about the random rares any more. I would venture to say that 90% of the SEQ people use SEQ for the maps and maybe to hunt stuff in their level range.

I remember 3 years ago when the NRO rayhtop (forget how it was spelled) mummy's scepter was like the ultimate weapon. Now it is basicly newbie gear.

Remember that there are 3 classes who get tracking, druids, bards, and rangers. If your complaining that all the rares are killed, it is more likely due to one of those classes than to someone who uses SEQ.

[high_jeeves]

I disagree that it provides little advantage. When was the last time you were pulling, and got more (or higher/lower level) than you wanted? It happens with SEQ, but it happens a WHOLE lot more without it. Is this a big advantage? Over a 60 year lifespan of a character, I'm sure it saves lots of deaths, and lots of time.

How often have you used it to locate that "perfect" pull spot, where no mobs seem to wander? They are in many zones, and many would be very difficult to find without SEQ.

How many times have you used SEQ to pull from a "sparse" pull area? Where there are wanderers, and there are enough of them, but they arent "everywhere"? How easy is that to do without SEQ?

Now, while the last example can be acheived by tracking characters, that is only 3 classes. I think over the life-cycle of a character SEQ is a HUGE time advantage..

--Jeeves