Exp STILL NERFED after September 6 patch

[Ratt]

I'll see what I can do about getting a level 54 mob killed with a level 56 10/10 and see what results.

Now that AA exp is fixed too, I'll look into that as well.

[rizwank]

Tell me exactly how to help.

Im thinking, if there are any light blues in ME that are same lvl as in DSP, I can kill one in DSP then in ME and compare to see if there is a ZEM.

Once we have that, ME has mobs of every lvl... kill one of each lvl and get xp
verify with another char then do with a 59 and 58 etc.

wouldnt this be the best way of finding out our formiula... once we have enough data..

rk

[DeltaHuey]

A 56 killing a level 54 mob is helpful.

Also a 56 killing a level 40's something mob would be useful to (stuff in the caves of DSP or tribesman I think are 40's).

Since there is likely two multipliers, one for your level (which is semi-certain), and one for the mobs level (the nature of which is unknown), a 56 killing a level 40's mob should only give you the one based on your level (ie. a level 60 getting 75% on everything below 5 levels of him).

-=Wedge=-

[Junu Peeth]

Agreed DeltaHuey.

What is eventually needed is for a lvl 60 player to solo all mobs from the lowest lt blue up to as far as they can go (obviously it gets hard to solo a white con and up), a lvl 59 player to solo all mobs from the lowest lt blue up to as far as they can go, a lvl 58 player to solo all mobs from the lowest lt blue up to as far as they can go, etc......

Then as DeltaHuey proposes, comparing XP gain from different lvl players killing mobs in the mid to low 40's will very likely give us enough data to discover the new Hell_level_Multiplier for whatever lvl the player is.

So to recap, even if you can't solo high dark blue mobs you can still go out and find the lowest light blue mob and solo it and then a mob one level higher than that and solo it, etc. Report back here with the lvl of mob killed, XP gained, your class, level and what zone it was in (with the ZEM if possible).

Eventually with enough people helping and collecting data we should be able to get a table that will describe all the unknowns for all for players from level 51 to 60.

[Yueh]

You don't have to solo the mob, you just have to get solo exp. So, you can have help as long as that help is not in the zone when you kill the mob. AND, the mob cannot die due to a DoT.

[Cryonic]

To get the full exp from the mob, you just have to do more than 50% of the damage to it and stay within a certain distance. Damage Shields don't count towards anyone. Mob can die of a DoT as long as you do more than 50% of the needed damage. Mob can't die to an NPC (like guards), but can be killed by someones pet (even yours).

[hhh]

I have data that I collected tonite I wish to share. I'll do some more tests tomorrow. Everything is, of course, solo exp.

Lvl 56 PC 1/1 kiling in kunark outdoors 100% normal

Mob lvl Exp gained Mob con

41 0 Light Blue
42 165,240 Blue
44 165,240 Blue
45 165,240 Blue
46 165,240 Blue
47 165,240 Blue
48 165,240 Blue
49 165,240 Blue
50 165,240 Blue
51 330,480 Blue


Lvl 60 PC 1/1 killing same area aa

Mob Lvl, AA Exp ganed, Mob Con
43 90,800 Light Blue
44 90,800 Light Blue
45 90,800 Blue
46 154,200 Blue
49 181,600 Blue


My data may be flawed. I did notice my current exp and max exp changes whenever you change zones. I did NOT zone after each kill. If I need to do this, I can collect new data to post in the next few days. I'm very curious to see who really got screwed out of all this.

[SwedishChef]

Data gathering would be great. Just posting raw data is best. Don't try to recalculate the data to compensate for any of these modifiers before posting it, but include what class modifier and ZEM they were obtained with, and your level (and the mobs level of course).

Once you have a set of data, regathering the same set of data with 100 % AA exp would help in checking what multipliers are the same for AA, and which are different.

To get solo exp:

If mob is 54 or lower, deal more damage than any other player or group which hit the mob, or any single NPC, and don't let an NPC get last hit or mob will poof. DS damage does not count to anyone. Don't let a dot from someone who is not in zone (= sourceless damage) get the kill either, there used to be a bug with that, not sure if it is still in effect.

If mob is level 55 or higher, the only thing required for you to get exp is that you have dealt more damage than any other player or group. Dots cause no troubles of any kind. NPC-s can deal the majority of the damage, and can get last hit, the corpse won't poof anyway. The ability to get NPC-s mad at eachother has been diminished through recent fixes because of bardic "charm burns" (well needed fix btw), but if they are on opposing factions they might still start fighting "naturally" (by you pulling one close to the other).

If mob is charmed or mem blured, all damage counters are reset.

Any mob that starts fleeing at the end is easy to solo exp, just have your friends camp out when it flees, or mem blur it.


Easiest way to obtain the Zone Exp Modifier: get a reference kill. Any solo exp for a 47-56 mob by a 60 char would do (since we know all the multipliers for a 60 char on those level mobs, ZEM is the only unknown). If you can't calculate the ZEM from this, just include the reference kill info at the start of your post.

[SwedishChef]

And yes, you need to zone (or relog) after each kill, otherwise you will only get the same resolution that the ingame exp meter gives (you get updates in ticks of the exp meter only when killing mobs, but when you zone it sends the actual number).

[Junu Peeth]

A question I have that arises from hhh's data (even though the data itself is invalid) is what is the multiplier for light blue mobs now?

Do blues and lt blues act the same, XP-wise, in that they both use the formula of (mob_level^2 * ZEM) as a base or do lt blue mobs have a multiplier (less than one) for being so much lower than the player is, just as mobs 55+ get a multiplier of 1.3 (and also a sliding multiplier based on mob level) for being harder?

I just haven't seen any data posted for a lvl 60 killing lt blue mobs (ie. lvl 45 and down) yet.

[hhh]

Quick update on this that I have.. I understand the point now of only being sent data to move 1/330. Hence why all the #s were the same. Here is some quick data I collected killing solo again. The computed exp is from the Player attributes window before killing the mob, killing mob, zone out, zone in.

This is a lvl 56 PC with no modifiers than I know of (not a halfing or war or big race or whatever).

Mob Lvl Color Computed xp
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
42 Lt Blue 102,204
43 Blue 134,064
44 Blue 140,524
45 Blue 147,136
46 Blue 153,900
47 Blue 160,816
48 Blue 175,104
49 Blue 182,476
50 Blue 190,000
51 Blue 310,351


Lvl 60 PC, 100% Normal EXP. Same zone as above.

Mob Lvl Exp
----------------------------
41 22,180
42 23,284
43 73,220
44 102,220 lite blue ^
45 133,649 blue -_-
46 139,656
47 145,793
48 152,062
49 158,465
50 165,000
51 171,665


EDIT: Adding lvl 57 pc info

Mob Lvl Exp
------------------------------
40 87,552 lite blue
42 160,786 blue
43 169,625
44 176,563
45 184,680
46 192,979
51 237,211

[DeltaHuey]

So, using 89.4%...

43*43*ZEM = 134,064 / 0.894

1849 * ZEM = 149,959

ZEM = 81.1 ... which makes no sense, soooo

obviously 89.4% is wrong, or this isn't a 1/1 character (what is it exactly?).

So my previous stuff is wrong =). Without a level 60 in the same zone and their accepted XP modifer of 75%, I don't know how else to figure out the ZEM and XP modifer of a 56.

But, the jump from 50 to 51 makes sense for Swedish's theory. 51 is within 5 levels of 56, just as 55 is within 5 levels of 60. Maybe you get a bonus for fighting cons within 5 levels of you.

Now, the jump.

Normal XP is a jump of:

(level * level * ZEM ) / (level * level * ZEM) ... cancel ZEM out

(51*51)/(50*50) = 2,601 / 2,500 = 1.0404 (104.04%)

Now, this jump is:

310,351 / 190,000 = 1.6334 (163.34%)

1.0404 * MOB = 1.6334

MOB = 1.56997 ~ 1.57, 57% bonus for a 56 killing a 51 con.

I think that is right.

-=Wedge=-

[Junu Peeth]

Lvl	XP 	TotMul	XEM	Mul1	Mul2	Mul3	Calc XP		XP Diff
42	102204	57.939	95	0.8	0.953	0.8	102,210.4	-6.39
43	134064	72.506	95	0.8	0.954	1	134,059.9	4.10
44	140524	72.585	95	0.8	0.955	1	140,514.9	9.12
45	147136	72.660	95	0.8	0.956	1	147,128.4	7.60
46	153900	72.732	95	0.8	0.957	1	153,900.9	-0.91
47	160816	72.800	95	0.8	0.958	1	160,832.9	-16.87
48	175104	76.000	95	0.8	1	1	175,104.0	0.00
49	182476	76.000	95	0.8	1	1	182,476.0	0.00
50	190000	76.000	95	0.8	1	1	190,000.0	0.00
51	310351	119.320	95	0.8	1.256	1.25	310,351.3	-0.32

From the data that hhh supplied I have tried to make a few guesses at what some of the multipliers are. Note that we don't have the actual ZEM at this time so these values are very suspect. Let me explain my reasoning so far.

Firstly, as you can see I tabulated the Lvl of the mob against the XP that was gained for its kill. I then proceeded to calculate the next column (called Total Multiplier) by taking the XP and dividing it by LVL^2.

The most obvious similarity that struck me straight away was that for levels 48 to 50 the total multiplier comes out to be exactly 76, I took this as a base of my assumptions.

Using SwedishChef's tables as the base for the rest of my columns I then had four variables to fill: XEM, Mul1(Hell Level Modifier-patched on 4/9), Mul2 and Mul3. If you haven't read or can't remember the tables that SwedishCHef posted Iwould recommend looking at that before reading further.

I assumed that Mul2 and Mul3 were both value 1.0 for lvls 48 to 50 and that left me to apply the total multiplier of 76.00 between two columns, XEM and Mul1. XEM = 95 and Mul1 = 0.8 fit. There is no good explanation for why I chose these numbers and this is not concrete, just a place to work from. XEM = 95 is within the range that XEMs can fall in as far as I am aware though and Mul1 = 0.8 would be a possible figure as that would make Lvl 56 take 25% longer, smoothing out the hell levels by making the non-hell levels (of which 56 was) take a bit longer.

I then took these two figures as constants from here on. XEM can not change because these mobs were all killed within the same zone and the Hell-Level-Multiplier is applied on the player's level which did not change either in this test data.

How did I get Mul2 and Mul3 after this? I fudged it to fit. While definitely not perfect it does show some small degree of progression and hopefully can be modified when we get more data. (ie XEM)

The Calculated XP column was from me wanting to check how close the Multipliers actually fit.
So Calc XP = lvl * lvl * xem * mul1 * mul2 * mul3
I then took the calculated XP away from the XP reported by hhh to see how big a margin of error there was. The figures speak for themselves.

My conclusion: If you can't give me the XEM or the data needed to calculate the XEM, I am going to go completely insane by looking at infinite combinations of these damn numbers.

hhh could you take a lvl 60 into the same zone you were in and kill a mob about level 48 to 50 and record the XP gain please? Also what exactly were the race and class of the character doing the first kills and what is the level 60 you have. It helps to have complete data.

EDIT: hhh has told me the toon in a personal message, it was a 10/10. The lvl 60 he has is a 10/11. Now we just need the XEM

[eq_freak]

He posted an update:

Lvl 60 PC, 100% Normal EXP. Same zone as above.

Mob Lvl Exp
----------------------------
50 165,000

And you say its a 10/11 char(ie, class mod 11 yes?).

So, exp for the lvl 50 mob before class mod = 150.000

And we know that the "smoothing mod" for 60 is .75, so he got 200.000 exp before that was applied. Divide 200.000 by 50^2 and you get ZEM=80. Hope I didnt mess anything up

I plugged in the numbers in excell using those values(including classmod 11) and tweaked the multipliers. The XP column is then computed, and seems to match hhh's numbers(thanks for the data ).

HHHs level 60 char with 1.1 class mod

Lvl	XP	ZEM	Mul1	Mul2	Mul3
41	22189	80	0,75	0,2	1
42	23284	80	0,75	0,2	1
43	73220	80	0,75	0,6	1
44	102220	80	0,75	0,8	1
45	133650	80	0,75	1	1
46	139656	80	0,75	1	1
47	145794	80	0,75	1	1
48	152064	80	0,75	1	1
49	158466	80	0,75	1	1
50	165000	80	0,75	1	1
51	171666	80	0,75	1	1

I tried the same for HHH's level 56 char, but I suspect he accidently forgot to type in one exp value(no 41 in his chart, but his 42 value matches the expected 41 value exactly):

The calculated XP for the level 51 unfortunately doesnt quite match the recorded xp, so the multiplier seems slightly off.

Level	XP	ZEM	Mul1	Mul2	Mul3
41	102204	80	0,95	0,8	1
42	134064	80	0,95	1	1
43	140524	80	0,95	1	1
44	147136	80	0,95	1	1
45	153900	80	0,95	1	1
46	160816	80	0,95	1	1
47	167884	80	0,95	1	1
48	175104	80	0,95	1	1
49	182476	80	0,95	1	1
50	190000	80	0,95	1	1
51	296514	80	0,95	1,5	1

[Junu Peeth]

Yep:
165000 = 50 * 50 * 1.1 * ZEM * 0.75 * 1 *1
165000 = 2062.5 * XEM
ZEM = 80

So for a lvl 56:

Lvl	XP 	TotMul	XEM	Mul1	Mul2	Mul3	Calc XP		XP Diff
42	102204	57.939	80	0.95	0.953	0.8	102,210.4	-6.39
43	134064	72.506	80	0.95	0.954	1	134,059.9	4.10
44	140524	72.585	80	0.95	0.955	1	140,514.9	9.12
45	147136	72.660	80	0.95	0.956	1	147,128.4	7.60
46	153900	72.732	80	0.95	0.957	1	153,900.9	-0.91
47	160816	72.800	80	0.95	0.958	1	160,832.9	-16.87
48	175104	76.000	80	0.95	1	1	175,104.0	0.00
49	182476	76.000	80	0.95	1	1	182,476.0	0.00
50	190000	76.000	80	0.95	1	1	190,000.0	0.00
51	310351	119.320	80	0.95	1.256	1.25	310,351.3	-0.32




56	495720	158.073	85	0.95	1.566	1.25	495701.64	18.36

*Note The lvl 56 data has been taken from Ratt's Submission after working out what ZEM was used from his lvl 60 test data.


Also, here is a possible table for level 60. I have taken the data that hhh has submitted and added the data that fee initially used and modified it for ZEM and level/class modifier for both. The table is based on a 10/10 char and assuming a ZEM of 100. Notice the anomaly at lvl 42 mobs, either this is an error in VI's table or I am just too tired to pick up my own errors.

Mob Lvl	XP		Mul1	Mul2	Mul3	Calc XP	XP Diff
41	25,204.5	0.75	0.1	2	25,215	-10.4545
42	26,459.1	0.75	0.2	1	26,460	-0.9091
43	83,204.5	0.75	0.3	2	83,205	-0.4545
44	116,159.1	0.75	0.4	2	116,160	-0.9091
45	151,873.9	0.75	1	1	151,875	-1.1364
46	158,700.0	0.75	1	1	158,700	0.0000
47	165,673.9	0.75	1	1	165,675	-1.1364
48	172,797.7	0.75	1	1	172,800	-2.2727
49	180,073.9	0.75	1	1	180,075	-1.1364
50	187,500.0	0.75	1	1	187,500	0.0000
51	195,073.9	0.75	1	1	195,075	-1.1364
52	202,800.0	0.75	1	1	202,800	0.0000
53	210,674.4	0.75	1	1	210,675	-0.5556
54	218,700.0	0.75	1	1	218,700	0.0000
55	442,405.6	0.75	1.5	1.3	442,406	-0.6944
56	489,214.4	0.75	1.6	1.3	489,216	-1.5556

At this time I can not spot a good pattern in Mul2 and Mul3 for the lvl 56 player data. I think it may be best just to rethink the use of 2 multipliers for that data and just one (possibly called Mob Level Modifier). That would make the formula for XP Gained:
XP = Player_Level * Player_Level * Class_Modifier * Race_Modifier * ZEM * Hell_Level_Modifier * Mob_Level_Modifier

LOL, what a well thougt out system. No wonder they want to make EQ2.