All these formulas and tables are giving me a headache...
All I know is that when soloing in velks I STILL get one Blue for each 4.5 bugs I kill. But I get to kill more bugs because everyone else thinks there is less exp and they go elsewhere.
All these formulas and tables are giving me a headache...
All I know is that when soloing in velks I STILL get one Blue for each 4.5 bugs I kill. But I get to kill more bugs because everyone else thinks there is less exp and they go elsewhere.
can we get an update to http://seq.sourceforge.net/exp.php
Great info coming in, thanks for the hard work guys... this is what makes SEQ so fun to work on... the exploration and divination of the magical gods (or devils, depending on your point of view) of Verant Interactive.
I will get the exp chart updated this weekend with all the new values (and additional tests I plan on running).
So did one of the VI devs post here like mobhunter said?
Yes, on first page, one named Gallenite.
His information was helpful, even though he doesn't appear to like the work done here
hhh, I like your datagathering, it helps alot. The data we get can be divided in two parts. Data on levels with no high level boost is perfect for learning what the hell level removal multiplier is. Once we have that, data from some different levels of mobs in the bonus area tells us what system the bonus multipliers are following for that level. Your data has been great for part one, which is the most important one.
Your data has also helped me alot with guessing what the multipliers are for different levels of light blue (cyan).
However, I have one question you might help answer. Is there any way you could check if the data you submitted as gathered from level 42-47 mobs with your level 56 character might have been gathered from 41-46 mobs instead (leaving a hole in your data at level 47)?
I am basing this on the fact that you say the lowest mob you killed conned light blue (42 should be dark blue to 56, I think), plus the fact that it is very hard to match your 42-47 data with any multipliers, but if they were gathered from 41-46 it would be easy.
Some more data from your level 57 character will help alot also, especially some from levels 52 and up, which is where we should start seeing a bonus (hopefully). While you are at it, could you see if you have time to re-verify the data you got for level 42 and 43 mobs? They are off by a few fractions for me. Might have forgotten to zone before checking the starting exp value, for example.
Here are my thoughts from the data you have given so far.
These values are looking promising:
Hell level removal multiplier (Mul 1) for a 56 char: 0.95
Hell level removal multiplier (Mul 1) for a 57 char: 1.14
It is easily seen that the bonus for a 56 kicks in at level 51, so it is likely that the bonus is applied to mobs (your level - 5) and higher, at least for levels 56-60.
Nothing can be said yet about what the bonus multipliers should be for 56 and 57 chars. This is what it looks like for the tested levels:
56 char, 51 mob: Mul 2 * Mul 3 = 1.57 (maybe 1.256*1.25, as Junu suggested, but kinda odd numbers)
56 char, 56 mob (Ratt data): Mul 2 * Mul 3 = 1.95757.... (~1.45*1.35, but does not quite fit, missing a fraction)
One level cyan = 0.8 multiplier
Second cyan level = 0.6 multiplier
Third and fourth level of cyan = 0.2 multiplier
(Counting downwards from normal blue mobs.)
Btw, don't ask me if the cyan multipliers should be put in as Mul 2 or Mul 3, or split over both as Junu did.
If anyone has exp data on a cyan mob during the 4/9 to 6/9 timespan, we might be able to figure it out, but without that there is no chance.
On a hunch, I'd place the cyan multiplier in the Mul 3 column, just because that is where the multipliers size seems to depend the most on how far away from your level the mob is.
Now all we need are some datapoints for killing mobs above your own level. Although this info is probably hard to gather unless you have a 3 computer powerlvling setup.
Originally posted by SwedishChef
To hhh
However, I have one question you might help answer. Is there any way you could check if the data you submitted as gathered from level 42-47 mobs with your level 56 character might have been gathered from 41-46 mobs instead (leaving a hole in your data at level 47)?
I am basing this on the fact that you say the lowest mob you killed conned light blue (42 should be dark blue to 56, I think), plus the fact that it is very hard to match your 42-47 data with any multipliers, but if they were gathered from 41-46 it would be easy.
LOL, that would make things fit very nicely if it were the case yes.
Aye, it does look that way and I hope it bears out to be true.It is easily seen that the bonus for a 56 kicks in at level 51, so it is likely that the bonus is applied to mobs (your level - 5) and higher, at least for levels 56-60.
I am resubmitting the tables that hhh has posted after modifying them to display XP for 10/10 chars in a 100 ZEM zone. His level 60 is a race10 class 11, his lvl 57 is a race12 class12 and the lvl 56 is a race10 class10. He told me these values in a PM to keep his anonymity. The ZEM I am deriving from comparing his lvl 60 XP data to the multipliers we have already collected for a lvl 60. These tables should help Ratt to fill in his master table a bit better. (Note that I have also added the modified data that fee first submitted for a lvl 60)
In the level 56 data I have assumed that the range of 42 to 47 was in reality from 41 to 46. Using this assumption the databecomes very smooth. This needs to verifeid by hhh.
Code:Player Lvl: 56 Mob XP Race Class ZEM NewXP 41 102204 1.00 1.00 80 127,755 42 134064 1.00 1.00 80 167,580 43 140524 1.00 1.00 80 175,655 44 147136 1.00 1.00 80 183,920 45 153900 1.00 1.00 80 192,375 46 160816 1.00 1.00 80 201,020 47 1.00 1.00 80 0 48 175104 1.00 1.00 80 218,880 49 182476 1.00 1.00 80 228,095 50 190000 1.00 1.00 80 237,500 51 310351 1.00 1.00 80 387,939
In the level 57 data I have changed two figures which I would like hhh to recheck if possible. For mob lvl 42 he has recorded 160786 and Ihave used 160876, for mob lvl 43 he has recorded 169625 and Ihave used 168628. I believe a number of typos or calculation errors have been made here, using the new numbers the formulas fit perfectly. Until these are verified by hhh the numbers can not be fully trusted though. Also note that hhh has told me that this character is a race12 class12 previously but the data will not fit using this combination, I substitued a 10/12 instead and the data fits nicely. This also needs to be verified. Hopefully hhh will be willing to share to all what character he used to collect this data.
In the lvl 60 data I have changed one figure also: for mob lvl 41 I have used 22190 instead of 22180, the reason is the numbers fit better. This is not a big deal if this one is not correct though.Code:Player Lvl: 57 Mob XP Race Class ZEM NewXP 40 87552 1.00 1.20 80 91,200 41 1.00 1.20 80 0 42 160876 1.00 1.20 80 167,579 43 168628 1.00 1.20 80 175,654 44 176563 1.00 1.20 80 183,920 45 184680 1.00 1.20 80 192,375 46 192979 1.00 1.20 80 201,020 47 1.00 1.20 80 0 48 1.00 1.20 80 0 49 1.00 1.20 80 0 50 1.00 1.20 80 0 51 237211 1.00 1.20 80 247,095
NOTE THAT THIS DATA NEEDS TO BE RE-CHECKED BEFORE IT CAN BE USED. I BELIEVE IT TO BE MOST LIKELY CORRECT BUT MUST BE TREATED AS SUSPECT STILL.Code:Player Lvl: 60 Mob XP Race Class ZEM NewXP 41 22190 1.00 1.10 80 25,216 42 23284 1.00 1.10 80 26,459 43 73220 1.00 1.10 80 83,205 44 102220 1.00 1.10 80 116,159 45 133649 1.00 1.10 80 151,874 46 139656 1.00 1.10 80 158,700 47 145793 1.00 1.10 80 165,674 48 152062 1.00 1.10 80 172,798 49 158465 1.00 1.10 80 180,074 50 165000 1.00 1.10 80 187,500 51 171665 1.00 1.10 80 195,074 52 182520 1.00 1.20 75 202,800 53 189607 1.00 1.20 75 210,674 54 196830 1.00 1.20 75 218,700 55 398165 1.00 1.20 75 442,406 56 440293 1.00 1.20 75 489,214
EDIT: Changed PLayer Level 60 Multipliers for Class and ZEM in the range of Mob Level 52 to 56 to reflect actual values.
Last edited by Junu Peeth; 09-16-2002 at 03:58 PM.
Using the data above (although it is suspect) I have tried to find a combination of multipliers which fit the data.
In each table the first colum is the XP adjusted for race class and XEM, we are working with a 10/10 in a 100ZEM zone. The second column is the proposed Hell-level Balancing Modifier and the third is the proposed Mob Level Multiplier (this corresponds to Mul2 * Mul3 in SwedishChef's work). The forth column is what the XP would be based on the level of the mob killed and assuming that HBM and MLM are correct. The last column is the difference between actual data and my theoretical result (ie a check).
Code:Player Lvl: 56 NewXP HBM MLM TestXP XPDiff 127,755 0.95 0.800 127,756 -1.00 167,580 0.95 1.000 167,580 0.00 175,655 0.95 1.000 175,655 0.00 183,920 0.95 1.000 183,920 0.00 192,375 0.95 1.000 192,375 0.00 201,020 0.95 1.000 201,020 0.00 0 0.95 0 0.00 218,880 0.95 1.000 218,880 0.00 228,095 0.95 1.000 228,095 0.00 237,500 0.95 1.000 237,500 0.00 387,939 0.95 1.570 387,939 -0.40Code:Player Lvl: 57 NewXP HBM MLM TestXP XPDiff 91,200 0.95 0.600 91,200 0.00 0 0.95 0 0.00 167,579 0.95 1.000 167,580 -0.83 175,654 0.95 1.000 175,655 -0.83 183,920 0.95 1.000 183,920 -0.21 192,375 0.95 1.000 192,375 0.00 201,020 0.95 1.000 201,020 -0.21 0 0.95 0 0.00 0 0.95 0 0.00 0 0.95 0 0.00 0 0.95 0 0.00 247,095 0.95 1.000 247,095 -0.21Examining this data it can be hypothesized that the MLM for the first level of cyan is 0.8 and the next is 0.6 and then 0.4 (possibly a glitch in data) and lastly 0.2.Code:Player Lvl: 60 NewXP HBM MLM TestXP XPDiff 25,216 0.75 0.200 25,215 0.91 26,459 0.75 0.200 26,460 -0.91 83,205 0.75 0.600 83,205 -0.45 116,159 0.75 0.800 116,160 -0.91 151,874 0.75 1.000 151,875 -1.14 158,700 0.75 1.000 158,700 0.00 165,674 0.75 1.000 165,675 -1.14 172,798 0.75 1.000 172,800 -2.27 180,074 0.75 1.000 180,075 -1.14 187,500 0.75 1.000 187,500 0.00 195,074 0.75 1.000 195,075 -1.14 202,800 0.75 1.000 202,800 0.00 210,674 0.75 1.000 210,675 -0.56 218,700 0.75 1.000 218,700 0.00 442,406 0.75 1.950 442,406 -0.69 489,214 0.75 2.080 489,216 -1.56
It can also be guessed that the HBM for lvl 56 and lvl 57 is 0.95, this would mean the XP during these levels has hardly changed from pre-patch levels.
It can also be assumed that when you are killing mobs that are (Your_level - 5) or greater then you see an increase in the amount of XP you will receive. It seems for all mobs below this level no change has occurred to the XP given aside from the Hell-level Balancing Modifier.
More data please.
Last edited by Junu Peeth; 09-14-2002 at 06:48 PM.
Im on a pretty big work project for atleast the next 48 hrs so I won't have any new data until atleast its over, nor will I be able to verify the 41-46 data by my 56 until afterwords.
However, the same 56 that I used to collect that data will likly be 57 this week, thus ensuring the 1.0/1.0 ratio and same ZEM to not allow any skewing of collected data whatsoever.
In the meantime I think Im gonna go find this race/class chart to make life easier for everyone
A further question I have, is collecting any data for some toon in the 30s futile? Will it help our endeavurs at all?
Making a 56 toon kill something higher than it for solo xp isn't the easiest thing in the world, but my setup would allow it. It would be considerably easier to make a 50 or 51 do it though, would it provide the same theory to what we are looking for ?
To find the class/race multiplier I have been using the two drop down menus on the page that Ratt originally linked to: (I hope it is correct)
http://seq.sourceforge.net/exp.php
Collecting data for a lvl 30ish toon would not be futile but it wouldn't be of any real use in working out the changes that the pacth has just made. It may be useful after we have uncovered the 50ish tables to then go and do the same down to player lvl one and write some new code using those tables to calculate XP gained from a mob. But atm our focus is not there.
As for killing mobs higher than your level, yes data from a lvl 51 toon will be useful but eventually we will need to get data for every level. Without it the multiplier tables will be extrapolation and educated guesses rather than tested data.
Question: all of this data has been collected in the same zone right hhh?
Yes, all the tests so far have been in the same zone.
Oops, sorry about the wrong guess at hell level removal modifier for level 57, heh. I made a wrong assumption about what class mod they were gathered with.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I'm not sure if Vah Shir or Beastlord is correct (I'm fairly sure it isn't) ... I just put in 10 as a place holder until I got confirmation of the modifier for that Race / Class.Originally posted by Junu Peeth
To find the class/race multiplier I have been using the two drop down menus on the page that Ratt originally linked to: (I hope it is correct)
http://seq.sourceforge.net/exp.php
I'm somewhat confused by the above tables though. The level 56 and 60 data don't match up with what I've seen.
I think we need to standardize on the variable we can control.
I ran my tests in Maidens Eye (80 ZEM?) on a 10/10 set of characters.
Example of the discrepency is a level 60 player killing a level 56 MOB. I got 415,808 as the resuling experience in Maidens Eye... the above charts show substantially more than that, though... so it looks like the ZEM is different.
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